Again: the letter to the bishops

Amelius Publishing House Discussion Board: Toward the Light: Again: the letter to the bishops
By Morten on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 06:10 pm:

Dear All,

I read some of the contributions to the discussion regarding the letter to the Danish bishops – and have some comments.

I have read the letter once, not so long ago, and it made a deep impression on me, mainly because of the ‘tone of voice’. I specifically remember the following; that the Danish bishops were given a very short notice for accepting Toward the light – and that it was stated that God might turn his back on mankind for a period, were this acceptance not to happen.

I do not think that to be true.

Remember: Jesus, our elder brother, has vowed to lead the humans onto the realm of God – that he has promised to let his ‘torch of truth’ shine for the present generation (1920), and for all future generations – has promised never to tire, never to let anyone down. How then, is it thinkable, that God would ? The love of Jesus is but a drop of water to the greatest earthly ocean, compared to that of our Father – these are the words of Jesus himself – should this then mean, that the love of God is something so grand and fantastic, that it is without compassion ? Could you imagine yourself abandoning millions of brothers and sisters to live a life on a devastated earth, without wanting desperately to do your utmost to help, to bring light and truth to them? And should then your love, your compassion be deeper and stronger than Gods? Surely not – happily not. Love is not something abstract, inconceivable – it does not mutate when it becomes the love of God, it becomes pure and absolutely trustworthy.

The image of God abandoning the humans, is a repetition of the Christian image of God from the old testament: remember that the bible / Christian interpretation suggests, that there was a scisma between man and God (when Adam and Eve were expelled from paradise) – some kind of insurmountable abyss, that existed until Jesus was killed on the cross, as a sacrifice (so much did God ‘love’ his children, that he killed his son on the cross....). Probably therefore, it makes such a deep impression on us – it repeats patterns of thought that we have gotten used to over centuries, that have found the way into the common subconscious of the human race.

Why Agerskov and her spiritual helpers published the letter – I can only guess. Remember, that at that time probably the sufferings that the war would bring, were already clear to them, from ‘the other side’. I believe that their minds were somehow confused by darkness, by the extreme sadness and desperation build up through years and years, and surely also by the incessant direct resistance and hatred that they have met with from the incarnated eldest (remember we are in the era of Hitler, Stalin and other extremely darkened personalities). I feel the deepest sorrow for this letter – and I believe that we should not use it, as a means of ‘threatening’ people who do not accept Towards the Light with the idea that God would in certain circumstances choose to turn his back on us. For that is not the way of the light.

Withe love:

Morten Barfoed

By Robert K. on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 05:21 pm:

Dear Morten,

You write that you feel the deepest sorrow for The Letter to the Bishops, and also that we should not use it as a means of "threatening" people who do not accept Toward the Light.

Has anyone ever used this “Letter to the Bishops” as a threat??? I think you should read the letter once again, because there are some fundamental points you seem to miss. It has nothing to do with threats and fear. And do not forget that this Letter to the Bishops was meant to the Danish Bishops back in 1938. The Letter is irrelevant today, in the year 2002. Today this Letter is nothing but a historical document. And no, the minds of the Youngest were definitely not "somehow confused by darkness..."

Morten, you are touching the truth when you mention Hitler, Stalin and the rest of the Eldest, but you have to turn your reasoning 180 degrees in order to get the Letter right.

Johanne Agerskov, the Youngest and God himself are 100 percent behind this Open Letter to the Danish Bishops. Maybe it is easier if you take the following points into consideration:

- The year 1938. Did God and the Youngest see dangers in the horizon in 1938?
- Hitler planed to start the War in Mars-April 1940, but he was – like the rest of the Eldest – impatient and began wage war in September 1939. (1940 minus 1938 = 2 years.) How much time was given to the Danish Bishops?
- Ether-images.
- Nazism, communism, fascism
- Nuclear weapons
- Hundreds of incarnated Eldest (among others Hitler, Stalin), many with no conscience
- Incomprehensible sufferings
- Could God in 1938 have foreseen how the ”coming” war would go?
- How should the Youngest have been able to carry out their work during an atomic winter?
- How should the Youngest have been able to carry out their work in Europe and the rest of the world with Hitler in power?
- And finally, how do you in the easiest way remove Ether-images?

Do you follow, Morten?
It has nothing to do with "God abandoning the humans".

God and the Youngest are absolutely behind the Open Letter to the Bishops, no doubt about that.

Love,
Robert K.

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 05:59 pm:

Dear Morten,

You have made some very keen observations - yes, I think you are right to believe that this is where we should seek the key to the "dark" tone of the Letter to the Bishops: the enormous, densely black clouds of darkness that welled forth in the late 1930ies. The Youngest who worked on the astral plane of the Earth could hardly avoid being influenced to varying degrees by the depressing and bewildering emanations of the darkness - and indeed Johanne Agerskov's spiritual guide would be no exception.
True, the Elder had been brought back to God, but the incarnated Eldest were still able to guide the accumulations of darkness in whatever direction they chose, while their physical bodies were quietly (?) asleep... They had been unsuccessful when they tried to lead Johanne A. astray, but the fact that VML had actually entered the earthly world must have been a terrible blow to them. So, of course they would try to throw suspicion on VML, at any cost. As we can see, they did not really manage to accomplish this; those who have read VML and The Doctrine of Atonement all know that God would never "turn his back on us". On the other hand, we are used to trusting whatever came from Johanne A.'s pen... The incarnated Eldest knew this, and they evidently managed to find a weak spot with Johanne's spiritual guide. Johanne herself would of course never question the words she received from her late father. Or, she might have done so - but the astral circumstances were certainly not less heavy to live in for her, at the time.
The second world war, the nazi regime: these events must have represented the absolute culmination of darkness - as controlled directly by the Eldest. And what with the "noise" that would surround the Youngest, while they moved about on the suffocating astral plane of the planet? Most of them had the opportunity to go back to the sixth sphere for a rest and an "astral spa session", every now and then. This was not the case of Leo. He had promised never to leave Johanne alone - and he did not. The risk was that he would become exhausted at a certain point, thus involuntarily slackening his attention. Of course the possibility existed that other Youngest might later try to correct any errors committed - but at that point the Letter had already been printed and published. Anyway, probably the Youngest did not consider it would become important in the future, so they left it at that. Also, as Morten points out, they must have been numbed by sadness.
This is what I can imagine must have happened - perhaps someone else has other suggestions to make?

God is always close to us all, to the most "wicked" criminal as well as the most pious and trusting believer in his eternal love - this is an unchanging certainty.

Love to all,
Ulla

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

Dear Robert -

You posted your message while I was still writing mine, so I did not read it before posting my own. I pray to differ from you at a few points. You write:

The year 1938. Did God and the Youngest see dangers in the horizon in 1938?

Well, yes I definitely believe they did. We can read in VML that also the Youngest - not to mention God himself - were perfectly able to read the ether-recordings, thus having the opportunity to try to prevent the disasters the recordings would inspire humankind to bring about. So, God and the Youngest were also perfectly aware of the dangers humankind were faced with in the late 1930ies. This is not the same as God having limited his knowledge about our future choices. The inherent evil of the ether-recordings might become reality - or it might not. This depended on the free choices of human beings (= human spirits, spirits of the Youngest and the Eldest). But all the possible events were known to God, in all their variations, allowing for whatever choices human beings might make.

I remember another detail: during the first world war, Johanne A. was told to copy the VML manuscript so there would be three identical copies. The three manuscripts were to be stored in separate places in Copenhagen. Johanne made the two copies and delivered them to other persons in July 1914. As it was, Denmark did not actively enter the war, but the Youngest had clearly seen that the danger existed - and they realized that a bombing of Copenhagen might have brought about the destruction of their work. Less probably so, if there were more than one copy available.

Robert, you also write:
Could God in 1938 have foreseen how the ”coming” war would go?

Also in this case, I am quite convinced God knew everything about the dark possibilities recorded in the ether - as well as what other perverse inspirations humans as well as the minds of the incarnated Eldest might likely invent along the way. He would not know what choices humans would make - but he would know about the consequences of any action undertaken - before the action had even been decided upon.

God has suffered greatly - but I refuse to believe that he would ever have inspired any of the Youngest to pronounce the now famously infamous sentence we are discussing. It is not really... our Father's style. Also, we should consider that not all human beings agreed to the horrors that were perpetrated: would God turn his back on these persons, too, however briefly, had their fellow human beings totally destroyed the world?

Let us think more about this. It occurs to me that God might have left this small flaw in order to make those of us who trust VML entirely stop and think... We would not like to eternally be like children in leading-strings, would we?;-) We should not accept anything blindly - not even VML. We should learn to think for ourselves, and the historical document of the Letter to the Bishops may be one such occasion of learning to recognize the gold from the dross. The chaos, the suffering... It is easy to forget a "spelling error" in the midst of the repercussions of a truly mad, war-infected world.

Pensively,
Ulla

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 12:30 am:

A small addition to the above:

It goes without saying that Johanne Agerskov would be the weaker link - living as she did in the earthly world. Indeed, if she understood anything wrongly and could not at once be made to realize that a sentence, or perhaps just a word (sometimes a single word - or even a comma! - can make a great difference) - then her spiritual guide's chances of correcting the error might possibly be lost or even overthrown by a burst of astral darkness directed at him/her/them.
This is just an idea - but it seems likely to me that something, even just one or two small details in some of the works connected with VML, would be bound not to come out perfectly smooth, considering the abominable qualities of the darkness. And I repeat, they were having to do with willfully directed darkness, in those day.

We also have the example of the definition of the mother-sun of our galaxy (see discussion on The Universe) - Johanne A.'s guide had not been able to make her write the right word, and he mentioned this later, thus correcting any possibilities for misunderstandings, in connection with the work on Questions and Answers.

The quality of the works, VML and The Doctrine of Atonement especially (and, I may add, also "Hilsen til Danmark") - is so outstanding that we are used to pretending perfection from them. But - there is only one perfect being in the universe...

Love,
Ulla

By Katarina D on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 02:50 pm:

I have never seen this letter to the Danish bishops and it is quite impossible to follow your discussion without any knowledge of the contents of this letter. Could anyone please inform me (and others who might experience the same problem) were to find this letter so we can read it for ourselves?

Regards
Katarina D

By Amelius P H on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 05:59 pm:

Dear Katarina D,

For further information regarding The Open Letter to the Danish Bishops, please call Amelius Publishing House.

Telephone: 0321-153 53 (Sweden)
or send an e-mail: vml@amelius-books.com

Kind regards
Amelius P H

By Robert K. on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 06:15 pm:

The Open Letter to the Bishops was published 1938 in Denmark. It was directed only to the clergy in Denmark, and the purpose was to make them aware of the difficult times. God and the Youngest were in dire need of help. God, his twelve Helpers and the Youngest saw horrifying ether-images coming closer – among other things World War II.

If God and the Youngest could find one bishop or priest – just one – who would understand and embrace the work Toward the Light, the World War II ether-image would have been dissolved, or at least large parts of it. What a relief it would have been for God, the Youngest and the whole mankind. But as we all know today, this did not happen. The bishops failed in their extremely important task. Of course, God had foreseen that this might occur. But if the huge ”Second World War ether-image” could not be depolarised, what would then happen? God has given us all a free will, therefore not even God could see or know beforehand which side would ”win” the World War II. The situation was tense and precarious for everyone.

We know today that if the Nazis and the Japanese armed forces had won the World War II, the civilisation as we know it had ceased to exist. We also know, through interviews with those who worked with Hitler and his henchmen, that the Nazis had large plans to ”rebuild” parts of Czechoslovakia and Poland to enormous concentration camps with ”murder factories” where 100,000 – 500,000 human beings could be massacred per week. This would have been ethnic cleansing in its darkest form – absolutely jet-black. They would have performed medical experiments on millions of children, men and women. The Nazis would have destroyed every painting by great artists that, according to their sick minds, was ”decadent”. They would have burned almost every book – including ”Toward the Light and its supplementary books. There would have been no trace, no trace whatsoever of the work that Johanne and the rest of the Youngest had carried out during so many years under extremely hard conditions. The work ”Toward the Light” would have vanished into smoke here on Earth. Entire cultures on Earth would have been annihilated. And what if the Nazis or the Japanese armed forces had ”discovered” the nuclear weapons before USA and Russia? They would have destroyed the United States, Russia, Great Britain, China and large areas of Asia without batting an eyelid. The result would have been hundreds of millions (maybe a billion) dead people, atomic winter over great parts of the world, hunger, unbelievable sufferings. We should have been transferred over 200 million years back in time. God had foreseen that all this could happen in the 1940ies, at worst. In the light of this, it is stated that He (God) ”perhaps for long periods would have to ’break off’ all connection with mankind”. This is not the same as abandoning the human beings. It is only a matter of changing tactic from God’s and the Youngests side. Please try to imagine how meaningless the work of the Youngest would have been here on Earth after for instance an atomic winter. What would the Youngests situation have become under such conditions? It would of course have been impossible for the Youngest to carry out their work, to guide and help the mankind forward under such circumstances. That’s why God ”wrote” the much-discussed section in the ”Open Letter to All the Bishops”. And once again, this has nothing to do with abandoning human beings.

Remember that the atomic winter did not occur. The Nazis and the Eldest did not win the World War II, therefore The Open Letter to the Bishops is irrelevant today, and it is nothing but a historical document from a past time.

The Letter to the Bishops is a ”document of time”. The heart of the matter is that this Letter was only intended for the bishops and the ”high priests” in Denmark in 1938. Its purpose was only to try to prevent a huge future-image. Everyone, who speculates that this letter is a ”test” or something from God’s side, is wrong. It goes without saying that God does not work in that way. Nor does the Letter contain errors because Johanne understood anything wrongly. Johanne did not ”misunderstand” certain sentences in the text. Before and after she received messages from the transcendental world, she always demanded that everything be in accordance with God’s will. This was how she worked for mankind. Never forget that Johanne always demanded verification that all was in exact agreement with the truth. For were the truth was demanded in the name of God, the Eldest would have had to yield.

God is one hundred percent behind every sentence, every word in the Open Letter to the Bishops. Johanne did no mistake here. Just because some readers misunderstand the Letter to the Bishops, please don’t blame Johanne for that – it is simply not fair. And forget the idea that God might have left a small flaw in order to make us stop and think… This Letter was far more important than to be used as a simple test from God’s side.

Again, this Letter is today nothing but a historical document. It can of course be ”fun” for us to posses a copy of it, but the Letter is insignificant now, the year 2002.

The ”Open Letter to All the Bishops” was about one thing: to try to remove one of the largest ether-images ever on Earth.

Love,
Robert K.

By Morten on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 08:10 am:

Dear all,

As I started this discussion, I do owe you some responses - I have say that my view on this has changed somewhat - also after having reread the letter. When writing my original contribution I had in my mind a memory of the letter, focused on a dark tone of voice, and the idea, that Gods possible 'turning his back on the humans' seemed so - well, far out, or improbable - that I reacted without first rereading the letter, and redoing some thinking.

I find many of Roberts considerations relevant. Perhaps more than any other,the one about the document being a historical document, that was relevant at that time - certainly not, as I wrote, one to hit people in their heads with today (I felt 'hit in my head' myself - the shame, and sorrow on behalf of the danish priesthood had affected me quite a lot when reading it originally).

I still find it difficult to believe, that God would turn his back to the humans in any circumstances (perhaps we shold just for clarity repeat, that the letter states that it might happen for a period of time - certainly not eternally). I guess this is the central point.

Also, Ulla, I do not think that God would on purpose leave a flaw for us to find. If there is a flaw, it wouldn't be something God wanted, as he would know it would only create confusion.

All in all - I'm sorry for stirring up emotions regarding this - forgive me for that.

Regards Morten

By Susi on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 09:59 am:

Dear all,

also I don't know the mentioned letter. But I know that it is irrelevant for us now. That's why I won't read it in the future.

Assisting to this discussion, in my mind passed the horrible pictures mentioned only in words by Robert.
As Austrian, we had to visit (at school) those "Lager" - no comment!

Opening this morning this site, I expected a sunbeam to use for shining in my day and then I found this...

My conviction is - if you allow to tell me - not to concentrate on the black past (is it reality or is it fiction), but to notice the beauty of the presence and to look forward for a more beautiful future. You all are aware of the force of the thought. For this I NEED to hear nice words and to see only "pink" pictures - so I can stay well for a long, long time. And how about you?

Please, try to spread your sunbeams! I feel that we who have read TTL have the responsibility for this expansion of light. Maybe God has given us this task for this life?

Only thinking AND being positively in every - even the smallest - particularity we can match with this great trust! (I allow to speak in this way with you because I feel that all of you are good girls and boys - I don't want to offend nobody) :)

Let us also encourage reciprocally on this discussion board - I need light!!! Can you give me any?

Light and love to all
Susi

By Robert K. on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:01 pm:

Dear all,

Morten, you do not have to apologise for “stirring up emotions” or anything else on this forum. No need whatsoever for apologising. I am very glad that the “Open Letter ”-issue was brought up, since it has caused so much confusion over the years. When this discussion board opened in August 2001 the basis was, and of course still is, freedom of thought. This forum has “a lofty ceiling”. Just keep on writing, Morten, Ulla, Susi and everybody else. J

And Susi, you are absolutely right when you say that we should not concentrate on the black past, but to look forward instead. Let us put away “The Open Letter to the Bishops” and concentrate on more important things. As I wrote earlier, the Letter is insignificant today as it is a document bound by time, in contrast to “Toward the Light” and its supplementary works which are all timeless. What we all ought to do – now and in the future – is to focus on one main thing: to spread the knowledge of the “Toward the Light”, “Questions and Answers” and “The Doctrine of Atonement and the Shorter Road”. The all-pervading problem in all countries around the world is that the general public has no knowledge whatsoever of these unique and outstanding books. Of course we can discuss different letters to bishops, and other “minor” issues, but this will in no way help us in our important task: to make the man in the street aware of that these works of the Light exist.

Here in Sweden we have tried everything we can imagine. We have sent free copies to newspapers, radio stations, TV stations, to priests, to authors, to creators of public opinion, and so on; we have done advertising in numerous papers but the result is disheartening. And I know that VML Publishing House in Denmark and Altre Menti Edizione in Italy has done the same. If somebody has further and/or better suggestions, please write.

And I totally agree with Susi when she says, “I feel that we who have read TTL have the responsibility for this expansion of Light”. If we all pray in common to our heavenly Father, that we wish to achieve a real and genuine and complete breakthrough with Toward the Light here on Earth, maybe He will hear us and send so much Light to the globe that the breakthrough we all long for will come true – once and for all. Who knows? J

With love,
Robert


P.S. I understand Susi that you need to hear nice words and to see “pink” pictures, as you said. But unfortunately sometimes we also have to penetrate the Darkness in order to understand our history and the world we live in. As you know, we all live in a dualistic world, darkness and light, good and evil, yin and yang, night and day, life and death etc.

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 06:05 pm:

Well said, Robert - the "Open Letter" had caused much confusion over the years. Both you and Susi are right to look forward and not back; so will I. Still, I fear I have caused a few misconceptions to arise, so I add the following, more precise elaboration of my thoughts - the piece below represents my own point of view - others have different opinions and this is of course perfectly natural; we are all individual personalities, with different points of view. What is truly important today, is that we concentrate on making VML more widely known, as Robert says.
However, those who would like to know why I have assumed my position on the "Open Letter" are free to read the following - I will not be offended if no one does :-)

* * * * * * * * * *

Robert. I have to admit that I have never tried to really imagine what would have happened, had the dark side "won" the second world war. Your hypothetic description of the consequences is truly horrifying, but unfortunately it sounds "true to the form of the darkness", if I may say so.

I am sorry that I did not complete my train of thoughts in my former posts – this seems to have lead to misunderstandings. Of course God would not leave an error in any text “on purpose”, meaning to make us think later… This is not what I meant to say. I merely suggested that what remains of the “threat” that God might consider leaving humankind temporarily alone if the Danish clergy failed him yet again, is that today the outcome leaves us with a lesson to learn – and God would have acknowledged this possibility already then. Today this is what the Letter represents to us: an instrument of learning – we are in fact wrecking our brains to consider all aspects of the matter at hand, right now! I think many of us are quite incapable of imagining what Robert has so clearly envisioned - no instructor of horror-films could have done better, truly! - and so we simply shake our heads at the notion that God might possibly have found it necessary to break off all connections with mankind, however briefly. For it did not come about.

Makes us think, doesn't it? With a respect to the gigantic forces of darkness active then - life today is more like a walk in the park, and many of us are so innocent and naïve because we have never had to face that kind of darkness – not in this life, anyway.( Unfortunately this is not so in some places.)

As it was, I was only turning some ideas in my mind, trying to capture all their aspects. They were all hypotheses, reflections that I thought might be understood in this spirit - I am sorry if I displayed anything that could be misunderstood.
What we are really discussing here is: would God actually have broken off his connections with mankind had total darkness descended on the planet?

This is where I have to state that - "Ceterum censeo Cartaginem esse delendam" - I still think there is something wrong. I do not believe that God would have felt like leaving humankind to their own devices at any point, however briefly - not even during a nuclear winter. True, without the uplifting and bright works of the Youngest around anymore, almost total hopelessness would have reigned everywhere. (Though I have reason to believe that for example Wagner's works would still have been around, slowly starting to play havoc with the intentions of the forces of darkness...). Except for the divine spark within them, humankind would have had nothing to go by, no light at all to guide them. But that spark would have made it, in the end.

Would God have been able to just sit in his kingdom, ignoring for millions of years the misery of humankind on the ravaged Earth?

No, this would not exactly have been an example of godly behaviour, to leave all alone such children as humankind is made of. This is what the darkness wants us to believe - and had God really decided to leave all humans in the hands of the darkness, despite only few had failed (the bishops and priests, most of them spirits of the Youngest) - then God would have acted even more stridently against his own laws. One of these laws goes "You are not alone". Meaning, God is always with you, even when everyone else may have abandoned you. And this law is valid for the toughest criminal as well as for the saintliest nun…

Indeed, there was never any question of God meaning to abandon us. Not even for “only” a few million years.

Besides, is it not true that the rendering of Toward the Light meant the victory of the Light over the darkness? So? What does this “divine threat” mean? That the victory of the Light was no victory after all? (Please note the quotation signs.) That it was only a temporary victory?

If indeed there was an error, I imagine this might have been another obvious example of how the darkness can be used at the service of the Light. In fact, in the event the Letter was not heeded, there were two possible results:
1. If all the ether recordings had entered earthly reality, the Letter would be totally forgotten and perhaps destroyed in the nuclear winter and general madness reigning on the planet, together with VML, etc. etc. Visions of total darkness.
2. If only some ether recordings were brought into reality, the Letter would survive and become a testimonial for the future generations. We are these future generations – and God would certainly know already in 1938 that if the ether-recordings' schemes of total disaster and annihilation did not come about, then the humans of the future would – at least in some cases – be able to appreciate VML and connected works – and also point out with unfailing certainty any errors there might be in a historical document of secondary importance such as the Letter to the Bishops. The Letter is not very interesting in itself, today, except for those who would like to study the historical circumstances treated in the document.

In the latter case, God would certainly have no problems “leaving the flaw” exactly as it was, knowing as he would that anyone able to listen, really listen to the meaning of those words, would also be able to shake their heads and say, “No, this is not our God and Father speaking… something must have happened along the way…”

Let us say there really was a small but crucial error – perhaps just one word that Johanne A. had not understood well enough – and that her spiritual guide had not been able to communicate correctly to her before the printing of the Letter, because there was some impediment. E.g. in the Letter we learn that at the time Johanne was ailing and weak, she was not physically well – so might she not possibly, just possibly, have forgotten to ask for feedback on something that she slightly changed, because she was not entirely convinced, humanly speaking, of its effect? I believe this is possible - she was a human being living on a planet where such darkness reigned as would have the effect of totally confusing even the brightest spirit.

In such a case, her spiritual guide would have been knocking in vain on a thick glass wall, trying to reach her through the persistent noise and chaos - and it would perhaps be practically impossible to get through to her if she did not make contact on the subject herself. And the Eldest would have drawn a thick curtain of darkness right across that glass wall, because it was very much in their interest that the Letter would sound – if only in one single sentence – as if it perpetuated the biblical myths of an angry god… thus leaving the possibility to the very same bishops and ministers to whom it was addressed, of discarding the letter, because their human pride would cause them to face with arrogance anything that sounded like a threat to their persons. Much in the way of “You’d better behave yourselves… or else…!”

I insist, there is a flaw caused by the darkness in the Letter. I do not mean to discredit Johanne Agerskov’s great work and incredible, almost super-human efforts, absolutely not. Where would we have been without her?

On the other hand, can we in all honesty claim that Johanne A. was infallible? Do we perhaps want to make another saint as do the Catholics even today, in year 2002?
All human beings make mistakes, and Johanne was no exception. Johanne would certainly not pretend to be perfect – no human beings are, as we learn from VML - and by taking a walk in the streets. She and Michael were so afraid to be made into effigies by the future generations that they destroyed all evidence of their physical existence – today we do not have as much as a photograph of either of them. They did not want to be revered and cherished, as is the case of the idols of some religions.

Well, as we are asked to never accept anything without thinking about it first and asking for guidance if we are in doubt, I sat down to pray and meditate on the subject of the strident note of the Letter. I would have liked it very much if the outcome had been, “Oh yes! Of course Robert is right… how stupid I’ve been not to understand that before… This Letter is simply perfect!”
But it wasn’t. There are basically three things that still prevent me from agreeing with you, Robert.

One is my own immediate reaction when reading this very sentence:

And should you refuse [to keep your pledge to our Father], it is possible that He must discontinue all communication with mankind for many ages perhaps for millions of years, until the human beings have sunk down so deeply in Darkness, sin and misdeeds, that He, through His emissaries, can begin, all over again, with a new attempt to lead them out of Darkness and forward toward the Light.

This is a concept that would have anyone pale, especially if we think of a scenery as the one depicted by Robert, and honestly I cannot believe that God would be able to take any such step.

Two, the above sentence seems to be perfectly contradicted in the following:

"Our Father has informed the incarnated Eldest (during their nocturnal disembodiments) that their eldest brother has been redeemed. And He urged them to let themselves be released from their earthly bodies so that the human beings could be delivered of their presence among them.
Only a few followed our Father's request. The many thousands who refused to act according to His wish, decided to join forces and continue the spiritual struggle against God and against the incarnated Youngest in order to draw the human beings still deeper into Darkness, indeed, so deep, that God, in their opinion, would turn away in anger from all mankind and never again attempt to draw it forward toward the Light, to His Kingdom.”


The underscoring is mine. Also this excerpt is from The Letter to the Bishops.
Now, this is quite something else – these are true words of the Youngest. It is implicated that what the Eldest can try to imagine with their darkened minds, is certainly not what God would do. He would never “turn away in anger from all mankind”, leaving them alone, as the Eldest hoped he would.

Why, then, would Johanne A.’s spiritual guide claim later on in the Letter that God would “discontinue all communication with mankind, perhaps for millions of years”???

Three, the implications of the word “alone”. This was the answer to my prayer. The words that floated into my mind were: “You are not alone, and you never will be.” God created his first children because he did not want to be alone (with his 12 helpers) – and he created all his children as dual couples, so that the spiritual connection from one spirit would always be reflected in at least one other being in the universe.
Whether it was my conscience or my self telling me this, I am certain of the truth of these words. So, I am also certain that God would definitely not have left humankind alone for millions of years. In my opinion, “to be alone” is equivalent to “having no possibility of communication”. Telling us we are lonely, or that we will be lonely, is an attempt of the darkness to try to fool us. In reality the concept is a contradiction in itself, as the very spirit (e.g. the Elder, or any one of the Eldest) communicating this notion to us: “you are all alone, no one understands you” – would stand to prove that we are not alone – exactly because someone is communicating something to us.
Such are the subtle games of the darkness – sometimes difficult to recognize, but when we do… they will never get the upper hand again.

True, Susi, we need light - not darkness! However, where there is doubt and not all is totally clear, darkness will be present until it is uprooted and made to wither in the strong light of truth.

Rather, let us forgive Ardor and the Eldest for having caused this mess, so that we may look ahead serenely and be determined never to accept anything blindly, or without listening first. If we want to believe that God really meant to withdraw from humanity for “perhaps several million years” if some bishops and church ministers continued to behave badly – we are of course free to do so. Just as we are free to consider the sentence of the Letter an error – an error which has now come out into the open and from which we can learn much.

Love to all,
Ulla

By Colin M. on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 06:11 pm:

Hello All,
Nice to see some more activity on an interesting topic.

I must demur with some comments however in that I do feel it is important to examine what has gone on before so we can perchance obviate any re-occurence.

Are we not cautioned by mention in the Truth that those that try to hide away from darkness - such as monks or nuns or hermits - acting like ostriches and hiding our heads in the sand in the hope that the lion of darkness will not see us - are in fact not only not helping but actually hindering the advancement of the light?

The ancient adage of those "ignoring the past being destined to repeat it" is being played out so graphically on the world stage today that to me it is obvious that being one in search only of light in the hopes that we wont have to be faced with anything bad in our lives is counter-productive.

Of course not 'living' in the past - as the very ancient Chinese adage (and who knows where they got it - perhaps from those from the first civilization of 30,000 years ago as stated in the Truths) states "The man who ignores the past harms the present, the man who lives in the past damages the future."

For the letter, I have to agree with Robert - especially when reading the 'title' - "An Open Letter to All the Bishops of Denmark."

The 'Letter' was not directed at us today - but there is however, at least I feel, some interesting revelations and points that - simply by this discussion thread - cause the Light to be drawn more strongly into the open.

IMHO, ANY discussion on the Light and the Truths in any form is not only a good thing but necessary for the advancement of the Light.

Just in a cursory examinantion of those places around the world where there is NO discussion or belief in the Light or the Truth should show that any sort of open discussion is of great value - to all of us.

Comparison to the 'darkness' of the past - great! As by doing so we can clarify in our own souls why we at least would not and could not ever do such things again.

I feel one of the biggest failures of certain countries is that they lack the courage to face up to the failures of their recent (within the last 100 years say) past. Instead, they try and gloss over their failures and their errors, or attempt to obfuscate reality with 'pretty' slogans and false patriotism - or couch their words in religious dogmatic prattlings.

But, the only way these mentioned countries can succeed at this obfuscation is if the populace of those countries are willing to themselves 'ignore' the evil in their nation's history.

I find it interesting that in Germany, more and more young people are being drawn to examining their history and feeling the greatest revulsion for what was done and more and more are fighting any possible re-occurence of that horror - while at the same time in Japan - where the government refuses to this very day to even acknowledge that they did anything bad in their past and have gone as far as to not only make it illegal for anyone younger than 12 years old to be taught in school that Japan was an agreesor in the past but to improson teachers for trying to teach the truth and censoring their history books to expunge any mention of the horror committed by Japan in Asia during the war - you find they are again trying to develop a war regime, allow even corner grocery stores to sell child pornography, have a dramatic increase in youth gang crime with murders, drugs, organized crime, open child prostitution dramatically increasing - all of the signs of darkness having a strong hold.

They deny their past and they are drawing incredible amounts darkenss to their country.

Germany has - and for the most part - is examining their past and most are trying to not only separate themselves from it but have as a nation apologized for it - and their country and the lives of the people are improving daily.

America refuses to even entertain the thought that their country has ever done anything wrong to anyone and we can see today what is happening to them.

Hide from it - not a good idea. Wallow in it - not a chance. Examine it and bring it into the light so it can't hide - definitely.

Love,
Colin

By Robert K. on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:41 pm:

Dear Ulla,

First I would like to say that this is going to be my last contribution to the now so ”famous” Open Letter-discussion. I can see how the readers begin to yawn in front of their monitors.

My task is not to try to persuade anybody that my view is correct. What I feel and intuitively ”know” is enough for me.

I have read your last message, and I feel that I have to clarify certain things.
I would like to say that I fully respect and can understand much of what you write in your last contribution. But there is one very important and determining factor that separates us in our conception of the ”Open Letter…”: I vindicate firmly that the Open Letter is genuine in every respect, and approved and authorised by God himself – even the mentioned section about the communication with mankind. Johanne has not missed anything when she received this Open Letter from the transcendental world, nor has dark forces influenced her in one way or another (the Eldest or accumulations of Darkness etc.). I am sorry to disappoint you, Ulla, but there is simply no flaw caused by the Darkness in the Letter. But again, I respect when you say that you do not think that the section stem from God and the spokesmen of the Light, for reasons you have mentioned earlier.

Let us return for a while and see what the much-discussed section is about. Let us analyse it more closely. The section runs as follows:

”And should you refuse [to keep your pledge to our Father], it is possible that He must discontinue all communication with mankind for many ages perhaps for millions of years, until the human beings have sunk down so deeply in darkness, sin and misdeeds, that He, through His emissaries, can begin, all over again, with a new attempt to lead them out of darkness and forward toward the Light.”

In 1938 (just before World War II) it is stated in the Open Letter to the Bishops in Denmark that there is a ”possibility” that God must discontinue all communication with mankind… and so on. Let us now turn this sentence around and ask ourselves: What would bring the human beings to sink down so deep in darkness, sin and misdeeds? Answer: that the Youngest would cease to incarnate themselves on Earth. This would within the course of 10,000 – 100,000 year’s lead exactly to this ”downfall” (see the section in ”Toward the Light, regarding the consequences if the Youngest should cease to incarnate on Earth). But what could bring the Youngest to refuse to incarnate on Earth, and why? Answer: A nuclear war between hundreds or thousands of the Eldest who at that time were incarnated here on Earth. There is every possibility of the Youngest drawing a sharp line at a global nuclear war and with definiteness mark to God that here is our ”border”. They could have said to God: ”At a global nuclear war, with the downfall of the civilisation, radioactivity, nuclear winter, hundreds of millions dead people, etc, we choose to take a ”time out” from our work on Earth in order to let the nuclear radiation and the ”Darkness” over the globe diminish. Then, Father, we promise you that we will continue the important mission – the mission you have given us: to lead the human beings on Earth.” This would also be in accordance with the time information given in the Letter: ”…for many ages perhaps for millions of years…” This is almost exactly how long it would take to halve or to remove the radiation here on Earth – many ages or perhaps millions of years.

If the Youngest had withdrawn completely from the Earth – for a shorter or a longer period of time – would it not in practise have implied that the human beings would have been ”isolated” from God during this time? In a world that recently would have ”vanished” in a nuclear war and with all spiritual and astral Darkness as a result, the contact with God would have been almost non-existent. Do not forget that the Earth would have been a ”planet of hell” after a nuclear war. But what about the eldest of the Youngest, he has promised to never leave the human beings, he has promised to never let go of mankind until they have reached God’s Kingdom. We all know that the power of the eldest of the Youngest is great, but honestly, what could he have done alone if the rest of the Youngest had taken a ”time out”? If the rest of the Youngest would have withdrawn ”for a while”, after an Earthly catastrophe, not even the eldest of the Youngest could have done much – neither in a disincarnated nor in an incarnated state. And never forget these two things, nobody has ever forced the Youngest to work for the progress of mankind – it is completely voluntarily; and God is in the highest degree dependent on His ”emissaries” – the Youngest. All this led us to the heart of the matter. Let’s once again return to the much-discussed section in the Open Letter, but this time with explaining commentaries between the parentheses:

And should you refuse, it is possible (not a ”fact”) that He must (not that ”He wish to” or ”want to” or ”is going to”. He ”must”: it is a necessity for Him, He ”has to”) discontinue all communication with mankind (because of the temporarily withdrawal of the Youngest) for many ages perhaps millions of years (because of radioactivity, nuclear winter, and reasons we simply can not imagine), until the human beings have sunk down so deeply in Darkness, sin and misdeeds (because the Youngest had withdrawn for a while), that He, through His emissaries (the Youngest), can begin, all over again, with a new attempt to lead them out of Darkness and forward toward the Light. (The last part of the sentence indicates very clearly that it is only a question of a temporarily withdrawal).

And, Ulla, the underscoring you have done, ”…so deep, that God, in their opinion, would turn away in anger from all mankind and never again attempt to draw it forward toward the Light, to His Kingdom”, is not the same as, ”…that He, through His emissaries, can begin, all over again, with a new attempt to lead them out of Darkness and forward toward the Light.” The words “never again” and “all over again” are not the same.

If the Eldest had been behind the much-discussed section in the Open Letter, it would have ”sounded” something like this: ”And should you refuse, the fact is He is going to discontinue all communication with mankind for ever and the human beings shall sink down so deeply in Darkness, sin and misdeeds, that He will turn away in anger from all mankind and never again attempt to draw it forward toward the Light, to His Kingdom.” This would have been the word of the Eldest, without question.

And you write: ”If we want to believe that God really meant to withdraw from humanity for ”perhaps several million years” if some bishops and church ministers continued to behave badly – we are of course free to do so.” Ulla, it has nothing to do with how priests or bishops behave. It is not about that at all. It is about finding a priest or a bishop (an incarnated Youngest), who could assist God and the disincarnated Youngest in removing the biggest ether-image ever over the Earth, a very dark one - the World War II ether-recording.

With love,
Robert

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:29 pm:

Dear Robert,

Upon reading such an interesting answer as yours, I hardly think any of the readers would be yawning! ;-)

And do not worry, I am certainly not disappointed to learn that the Letter is 100% genuine - rather, this quite soothes me.
One question still remains with me. Of course God would never have asked any of the Youngest to incarnate on the Earth in the depressing circumstances you hypothesize and which fortunately have not come about.
But - would the Youngest really have abstained from incarnating? Some, perhaps, but not all, I do not think so. Some of them are very reckless, I dare say! Quite a few have even been crucified and burned on stakes, in the past. But you are probably right - perhaps I am too optimistic to believe such a thing. Certainly only one human being's trust - mine, for instance, I am well known for being silly, every now and again :-P - in their unfailing love for their human sisters and brothers would not have changed their mind upon seeing what awaited them on the Earth.

No human beings can, however, become isolated from God - unless from their own choice: that of totally ignoring their innermost spark, created by God - God's gift to all his children.

Your interpretation of the now much chewed paragraph seems reasonable enough to me, as seen from your point of view. But how about those innocent individuals, those who would have found themselves involved in the chaos of war and destructions that were none of their doing but in which they were forced to incarnate anyhow, because God never goes against his own laws (or those of the Eldest for physical human life)?
Would God truly have suspended their spiritual evolution too, for millions of years?

This question reminds me of how God adopted humankind in the first place. Only some of the Eldest repented what they had done - and when they had realized the full extent of their deeds and those of their fellow Eldest - they asked God help the "shadows" that aimlessly crowded the astral world. God heard them and gave a spark of his own spirit to the creatures of the Eldest. He did this on the request of only a few of the Eldest.
Would not a few of his children - human spirits - be likely to ask God for help, from the total darkness of a ravaged Earth? Would God not hear them and stand by them if they did?
Or would he decide that the spirits incarnated on the Earth were all birds of a feather, disobeying creatures and allies of the deaf bishops and ministers...?

- Of course "never again" and "all over again" are not the same... This was not what I said. On the contrary I used one paragraph to "neutralize" the other in a critical comparison, but perhaps this escaped your attention, among the many details pointed out.
One paragraph communicates what the Eldest would have liked to happen, as seen from the Youngest's point of view - the other states the hypothesis of what God would perhaps see himself forced to do, should the bishops et al refuse to listen to him - as you have correctly pointed out (but I never contested this meaning of the sentences).

And, oops! - I forgot a few quotation marks around "behave badly". These words were written in irony, as a metaphor for the more solemn expression of "heed God's message", or whatever... I leave you free to choose. There is of course no doubt whatsoever as to the purpose of the Open Letter, this is what it all boils down to. And we are lucky today to be able to consider it a historical document, a "curiosum". Just as well.

Now I think it is time for me, too, to lay aside scissors and cardboard. Thank you Robert for a most interesting discussion!

* * * * * * *

Colin, you have brought forth some very interesting points; I suggest we open a new thread to discuss them, entitled "The Advancement of the Light in Society", or something like that. See you later.

Love to all,
Ulla

By Mara on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:16 pm:

Greetings everyone,
what a fascinating discussion. I spend half the night reading every word of it (without a yawn...)and then dug out 'the letter' to read it again after a long time. I remember thinking that I understood why some of the people addressed did not respond, since many of them probably did not read TTL but just opened it somewhere and condemned it (like my father did) or put it aside without further thought, some of the concepts and words might have alienated them. The words without doubt are very strong unlike the gentle tone of TTL. I can not understand though how NONE of the people responded, all of them having given the promise to help such a task. Life has led them as far as choosing the path of religion so they would be able to do so when the time comes, and somewhere inside they must have all had their doubts. Growing up catholic I know how empty many of the prayers and words get recited, without really feeling any one of them. It struck and bothered me as a child already, and it took me always much longer to say my silent prayers, feeling that if I would not feel them deep inside then they would be entirely useless, and maybe as a child you are so close to the truth still that you know if something is not right. I also know what a stronghold the catholic religion has on people.
The thought that came to my mind was that maybe those words were spoken, because none of the Youngest that were bishops that were there to help in removing those horrible ether recordings and bring about a true reformation of the church seemed to be fit to do what they came there to do.
So if in the most crucial moment of time, none of them headed the call that our Father made to them directly (when are we ever this fortunate in having our nose pointed right onto the right path?) they would not be of much use during a nuclear winter -
It shows what repercussion not listening to your conscience can bring, so much so that 'it is impossible to relate all that for which these men must now bear the responsibility, a guilt that it will take them thousands, perhaps million, of years to annul through the penance that our Father has laid upon them".
It is hard for me to believe that hardly anyone of the religious and literary circles in Denmark would have come out to speak for the TRUTH.
I do have to agree with Ulla that somehow though I can not fully believe the sentence, that even if the worst happened ( and a lot of it did happen), there were and would be throughout it all some of those wonderful beings that gave their lives in joy to help the suffering and bring some of the truths out into the open, I was just thinking of people like Januz Korzak and the students of the White Rose among many others - surely God would not forsake them, and I am sure that also Christ would not have abandoned what was left after such a disaster. Remember it did happen before that the Youngest were disheartened and almost abandoned their task when he stepped forth and said he would do it all alone, and surely God would help him bear it all.
Something makes me think that the pure fact that we can all speculate on this and that there are doubts as to the true meaning or origin of the sentiment, SOMETHING must be the matter with it, since nothing in TTL would bring up that much debate ( a good debate, that is for sure).
In any case, I agree that it is important to talk about these things, but also that we should strenghten and support each other in this life and the tasks that we are all doing. I love the threat suggested by Ulla, and if someone does not start it before me, I will.
One other question to those of you who seem to know more about what was going on in Denmark, is it possible to read 'the Open Letter addressed to persons well versed in Danish literature' that accompanied this letter? Just curious -
Thanks everyone for clarifying many things, lots of light and love,
Mara

By Colin M. on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:38 am:

There seems to be an undercurrent to this thread that stems of course from one mention in the 'letter' that is causing much consternation and of course as all have read, this refers to the idea that Father would 'turn away' and the belief by some writing that this would, or could, never happen.

I would like to request that all go over the first section of TTL - say from page 8 to page 28.

Many times in this section when referring to the time period when Ardor and his followers were attracted by Darkness and stayed on the 'earthly plane', we find the mention of Father leaving the Eldest 'on their own' and it is noted with the phrase of 'much time passed' and 'again much time passed' - quite different from the mention of time periods relating to that noted on page 7 of 'some time passed' and 'some eternities passed'.

So, for repeated periods of 'much time' and several of these lengths of 'time' - Father left the Eldest to their own devices because as is so often mentioned for us to understand "..for HE compels no one to do that which is right. But HE looked with sorrow upon their conduct."

This was not in relation to HIS 'adopted' children, this was in relation to HIS FIRST BORN!

One can only imagine for how long Father had allowed His First Born children to slowly defeat darkness, we only have the the concept of time that we understand, but, the mentioning time and again in this section of 'some eternities passed' and millenium after millenium passed' while Father watched and allowed His First Born to win their OWN victory over Darkness without doing other initially save when "God caused his voice to be heard in warning." does, I feel, give us direction.

I count 8 times the mention of 'much time passed' between the time mentioned on page 8 when the Eldest "...became of one mind" in their decision to 'create' and the mention on page 15 when Father first voiced his decision to 'adopt' [us] and asked the Youngest to suffer the hardship of being incarnated among us to help us slowly draw ourselves out of Darkness.

But there is a mention of a clarifying period of time to help us understand on page 14:
"then the voice of God sounded unto them once more; for another aeon had passed." - This leads me to believe that Father 'spoke' with his FIRST BORN once at the closing of each aeon, so I read here that there were at least 9 aeons from one point to another.

Made clearer again on page 10 when Father answers the plea of the Youngest for Him to "..bid them to return" by saying "But for the sake of your prayer will I sound my voice unto them at the passing of each aeon of time, that they should remember that which they have forsaken, and repent of what they have done."

I have a dictionary definition of an aeon if I may as: "1: an immeasurably or indefinitely long period of time; 2: a unit of time equal to one billion years - used in geology.

Thus, from Father's own words - without taint of 'error' - comes the explanation that for at least 9 Billion years (give or take) - He allowed His First Born to exist at their own devices - watching of course, Loving without cessation, sorrowful beyond measure, but NOT interceding. Allowing them to do battle with the Darkness in themselves so they could become 'whole.' Allowing His First Born and their creations to sink into the deepest pits of Darkness - WITHOUT INTERCESSION!

Are we really so dissillusioned as to believe that Father loves us 'more' or 'less' than His First Born? NO, Father loves us all equally. Father knew and it is stated repeatedly that for any of His children to become 'fully grown' if you will, each must be exposed to and defeat Darkness at the individuals pace. Father does not and will not alter that growth by intervention.

So, if Father is prepared to allow his First Born to make their own way without assistance other than to admonish them once every billon years to turn away from darkness and back to the Light - then of course he is prepared to allow this with us, his adopted children so that we too can be victorious over Darkness and stand before Father as full and evolved beings. I have to believe it would not be as long as we are not so 'high' as Father's First Born so cannot 'fall' as far.

Ulla, you mentioned in a previous thread that our time so far is but a fraction (or words to that effect) of existence.

So too is a million or tens of millions of years when viewed against a billion years - or 9 billion.

Should Father decide to 'withdraw' from 'us' (which I don't for even a nanosecond believe he would do 'willingly' or completely - just as he did not with the fallen Eldest), in answer to the question "Do I think it is possible for Father to allow us to sink so far into Darkness that the dregs that would be left after that could once again be 'began once more' with?" Yes, of course I do as I believe His love for us is as great as His love for his First Born, and His desire for us to become as 'pure' through victory over Darkness is as strong as for His First Born .

Especially as it is stated time and again in the Books, and has been written and espoused several times in threads on this forum and is understood by all and even often used as an 'excuse' for doing other than what some may feel is 'of the Light' because of personal preference - God gave each of His children free will and NEVER interferes with the direction the individual is led by that free will.

I would again if I may, include a note I made in the previous iteration of this question:

"...simply ask whether it is your serious belief that human beings can be transformed from sinful creatures into angels from one moment to the next!! FOR NOTHING SUCH CAN EVER OCCUR! Century after century, milennium after milennium must generations be born and die before any really significant improvement can be expected."

This also from the 'letter' written in 1938, and while I understand it is disturbing - especially to those that would like to feel that all will be resolved in the next few years and that in our 'lifetime' we will be witness to the victory of Light over Darkness - by even our limited concept of 'time' - we will all live many, many lifetimes before such a victory will be manifest on a 'universal' level, and of course there will again be times when the 'civilizations' of humankind will sink to the depths and rise again and sink again and rise again before such a victory.

This is not a 'sad' thing or one that should cause consternation - other than personal sadness of course - but should instead cause Joy as we know there will be a victory. But, it isn't going to happen next week or next year or next century.

It does mean though that there is much work to be done - BY US - an down through distant generations and as long as there are some who do work toward individual and greater community 'Light' there will be progress.

I also feel that to try and find perhaps an 'error' that can be blamed on Ms. Agerskov because one does not agree with either a mention in the 'letter' or any mention in any of the Books, suggesting that she was at fault because one has a different 'interpretation' of what seems clear to me to not need 'interpreting' is also unfair. Yes, all HUMANS are prone to error - but Father is not and as Father chose Ms. Agerskov I am one to believe that if Father did not want something mentioned - he would not have given it to her. And if it was not given to her - I do not believe she would have 'invented' it.

So I offer the above to those that feel in TTL there is no possible mention of such an occurence - or that our present existence is 'THE ONE' - there is mention; and we are not 'the Chosen Generation' or anything else so foolish - we are just in one of our many lives - more fortunate than many millions of others because we have been blessed with the availablility of the Truth in THIS life while so many others will not find it for many, many more lives - and, through our great fortune in being blessed with having this knowledge in our present lives, we should be able to see that we will not even be here when the final victory of Light over Darkness on this earthly plane will play out - for we will be as is mentioned in TTL in our new homes and existing and growing even further while we await the arrival of our brothers and sisters that had to for a longer time strive to reach their victory.

With Love,
Colin

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 01:16 pm:

Final Clarifications

Dear all.
As always, whenever I have been searching for an answer to any question of doubt, the solution has appeared. I believe you all know the gratifying sensation of always having your doubts answered – in my experience, once we have accepted the truth of the old saying “Seek and you shall find” – a mental mechanism starts working and voilà! – we always receive the answers we are looking for.

A few days ago, I found on www.vandrermodlyset.dk a letter I did not know existed, which accounts for the “mystery” of the Open Letter (the letter is in Danish, to be found at http://www.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-jensen.htm). In September 1939, a certain Mrs. Jensen wrote to Johanne Agerskov, because she was of the same opinion I have myself exposed in this thread: that the apparent threat that God might leave humankind to their own devices for perhaps several million years – did not echo his fatherly love and spiritual coherence. She added that as far as she was concerned, neither did this phrase adapt itself to the love of Christ for humanity.

The answer to Mrs. Jensen was written by Inger Agerskov, Johanne’s daughter, because of her mother’s illness during that period – but Inger of course wrote only what her mother told her to write. Thus, first we find explanations similar to those we have already arrived at in this Forum, concerning the discrepancy between the behaviour of the Youngest and their promise to work for TTL and the Light, as well as the workings of human free will to follow or not follow the voice of our conscience, among other things.

However, in the letter is highlighted a matter which none of us considered very important (as far as I remember; please correct me if I am wrong): the role of the human spirits with a regard to choosing their own future.

While we learn in Q&A II no. 72, that the Youngest allowed that human spirits take the lead with a respect to art and general “cultural” expressions – thus actually beginning to destroy what they themselves had created throughout the millennia – the role of the human spirits is clearly outlined in the letter to Mrs. Jensen.

I have taken the liberty of translating some relevant paragraphs of the letter to Mrs. Jensen; please forgive any badly translated passages; this text deserves more and better work. For now, it will serve our purpose (this will be rather longish…):

[In God’s Servant’s Speech] you will be able to see how spiritually small the human spirits still are, but simultaneously you will also be able to observe that they are not as undeveloped that they cannot yet decide for themselves, whether they want to be directed in an evil or a good direction. – The human spirits know perfectly well what it right and just and what is wrong, in fact their guiding spirits help them. But when human beings do not wish to heed the warning voice of their “conscience” to walk upon the pathways of the Light, and when the incarnated Youngest fail who were supposed to help them understand the true God – when those who were supposed to indicate to the human beings the Shorter Road to their God and Father [ – the ultimate act of forgiveness (text adapted by usq)] do not themselves wish to recognize this Shorter Road but instead stubbornly support the god of the Bible […] – then what?

Follows a reference to the spiritual culmination of the incarnated Youngest (Bishops et al), with ref. to VML Ardor Ch. 13 and Commentary CH. XIII.

…New incarnations of the Youngest under similar circumstances and with the same purpose would probably also be in vain, for in the meantime the human spirits would very likely have “grown” yet further in their own imagination; therefore they would probably be even more likely to taunt the divine than they are today, they would be yet more “certain” that no God exists at all, and that they, at least, do not need him! Thus the influence of the clergy would steadily decline, and the possibility of an understanding and a public acceptance of “Toward the Light” would dwindle correspondingly. –

Those Youngest among the church ministers and the bishops here in Denmark, who before their incarnation promised God to bring “Toward the Light” before the public opinion, have not yet fulfilled their promise. Will they not do so, or if humanity will not become acquainted with the work in any other way, for instance through science, within a time limit known only by God, then the future will evolve as it is stated in the open letter to the bishops: God may possibly break off all connections with humankind, perhaps for millions of years! –

If for a time God broke off his connection with humanity, he would probably not incarnate the Youngest during this period, among other things. Thus, current culture would decline rather quickly, as no one would be there to maintain it, let alone carry it further or elevate it. The human beings would then sink back to the level of cultural evolution upheld by humanity, when the Eldest through their arbitrary incarnations brought disturbance and destruction into the tranquil, gradual progress determined by the Youngest. Then their spiritual and cultural levels would correspond, until the cultural level would possibly decline even further, partly because the human spirits would not be able to maintain it, even at this base level, partly because of the darkness they had themselves attracted by allowing their will to lead them in an evil and base direction. But the ember of light that the human beings have received from God would eventually make them recognize their own powerlessness, and would cause them to remember the true God in their suffering and despair – the father of their spirit of whom they all learn during their sojourn in the spheres between incarnations. Once the recollection of God awakens with the human spirits, and when they have learned how to ask him for help, God will probably reestablish his connection with humanity and allow the Youngest to incarnate in their midst. For if the human beings themselves desire and ask for God’s help, they will by their own free will receive the gift God intended to give humankind through the Youngest, the gift that God does not force anyone to accept. So, when the human beings are ready to receive God’s help by their own free will, evolution can start again.

As our present times are exactly as described here, with hatred, murder, persecutions, wars, etc., it is not strange that God will possibly break off the connection with humanity for a time when, instead of receiving his message of love and truth, “Toward the Light”, which was supposed to help them advance spiritually, they prefer the deeds of the darkness, and when the Youngest who were supposed to help him, hide behind old prejudice, tradition, theological dogmas and postulates, etc.; when they forget the promise they have made to their God and Father before incarnating. So, when human beings do not want to accept the God’s gift, his help, when they do not want to have anything to do with him, and when the Youngest, God’s assistants, can no longer lead humankind but allow themselves to be led by human spirits, then God must turn away from these creatures of the Eldest, until they themselves desire his help and are ready to receive it.

Human beings themselves must decide whether they want to know the true God, whether they will turn to him for help in sincere prayer, whether they will apply all their willpower to will good and conquer evil. Indeed, God demonstrates his love for humankind by allowing them to choose freely. He suffers if they walk on wrong paths, but he understands them, because their self-overestimation is owed to the violent and speedy evolution of the world, where their own spiritual evolution has not at all been able to follow suit In order to offer them the possibility of making the right choice, if they are unable to do so at this point, he will leave humankind to themselves, so that their will for good may be developed under such circumstances as are suitably for their spiritual self. Thus whole personalities will be created – something which cannot be achieved by coercion. So, the fact that God may possibly leave humanity to their own devices is not a threat, but a Law which works just as mechanically for the human individual as does the Law of Retribution.


At last, Christ’s role in this (by now hypothetical, phew…) scenario is mentioned: as Christ has promised to guide humankind to our Father’s house, he would certainly not leave us alone:

Neither would such a possibility be contrary to the love of Christ. If the Youngest would not be incarnated for a long time, they might possibly continue to help as guardian spirits, just as Christ as well as the other Youngest always have great tasks to accomplish in the spheres, where among other things they instruct the human spirits between incarnations, in the ethical-religious part of “Toward the Light”. Christ has promised to lead humanity to God’s kingdom, and he will undoubtedly continue with this work whatever happens. For a time he would then be the only leader, as God’s supreme leadership would be missing, for it would indeed be entirely superfluous for God to continue to occupy himself with the human beings, if such a bad event should occur as that of “Toward the Light” not being officially accepted in some way. Reading the above you will understand that he can do nothing for humankind, as long as they do not want to know him, as long as they do not accept his help of their own free will!

[All underlinings are mine, usq.]

* * * * *

The letter to Mrs. Jensen, of course to be read in its entirety, does not leave out a single aspect of the matter of the “million-year-leave” – and I can now at last declare myself satisfied that also the Open Letter to the Bishops is 100% a work of the Light, with no dark interferences whatsoever. So, you were right Robert – Carsten – Colin – and whoever else felt inspired to contradict my doubts from their own deeply felt certainty.

My assumptions were based on my trust in God’s infinite love and compassion – what I was unable to envision was… that a gift given does not necessarily call forth a sentiment of appreciation and gratitude. And if it doesn’t – why should the giver insist and continue to lavish still more gifts on such deaf and blind beings? Especially if there is another solution, however sad and depressing this solution may be (God saw to that, of course) – human beings themselves would have chosen it. So many human spirits are still profoundly ignorant – and only those who deeply understand VML are able to truly appreciate God’s gift to us all: our spiritual life. Us.


Seek and you shall find…

Love,
Ulla

By Tom Storey on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 05:51 am:

Hello all:

None of us participated DIRECTLY in the preparation of the book. Nor were any of us ranking members of the Danish church at the time the book was brought to them.

That being said, we are engaged in speculation.

I will join in.

The youngest in the hierarchy of the Danish church who promised to accept the book had their chance AS CHRIST DID. And, I will guess, as each one of US has in this lifetime and others.

We can observe that they 'hid' behind dogmas, rituals and lies. I suppose this gives us all an opportunity to forgive our brothers and sisters who have failed in the face of darkness. We all have at some point or another and I imagine we will again.

In reference to god "stepping away" from us humans. Losing patience with us etc.

Not going to happen. Never did never will. Don't listen to me....listen to your heart.

No more youngest being reincarnated?

Ask your heart if ONE of the youngest would, for an instant, stay in the spheres rather than help their brothers and sisters. Yes the guardian angel business is brisk and yes the incarnated yyoungest business is brisk.

Keep in mind that those disincarnated youngest who spoke to the writers of these books were involving THEMSELVES also.

Christ in particular, has such power that the authors struggled with the energy.

The other youngest who communicated answers to questions were speaking as clearly as they could.
The words transcribed were THEIR words. Their best shot at Gods words.

They had a great deal of emotional involvement in the success of this book. In the change of the church. It failed as Christ did, as we all have at one point or another. Tell me about failures! The Spanish inquisition? The US Catholic church and pedophilia? I mean there ain't enough space on this website's server to denote the failures.

You think Mohammeed is jumping for joy over the latest twists on Islam?


Anyway, I am going to mention something that might or might not inspire some discomfort.

The Bible is not a reliable source of information.
It isn't.

The icebergs are melting because the earth is getting warmer. Specualtion is that we are in a warming cycle that has been going on for thousands of years. Tune in a couple of dozen lifetimes to see if the spec is right.

GET ALONG WITH YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

The above is the bottom line.

Getting behind "Toward the Light" is fine. If this getting behind activity, for one instant, causes you to NOT get behind one of your brothers or sisters, put the book away.

It is not a religion and if you read it you know it was never intended to be.

Tom

By Robert K. on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 03:19 pm:

Dear all,

For years many people have discussed the authenticity of the ”Open Letter to the Bishops”. Some have stated that this Letter must be a falsification or that Johanne Agerskov did misunderstand at least some parts of it when she received the message. Others, however, have been of the opinion that this is a true message from the transcendental world – but they have not been able to ”prove” this in a satisfactory way to their fellow beings, it was simply a inner feeling they had that the Open Letter cannot be a ”fake”. Thus, during almost 65 years there have been many voices for the Open Letter but there have also been many against it.

But then a man called Jørgen Degn found a letter from 1939 at VML Publishing House in Copenhagen, Denmark, to a certain Mrs Jensen. Recently Mr Degn published the whole letter in Danish on the Internet.

I have now for the first time read this letter in Danish. It explains every aspect of the Open Letter to the Bishops in a logical and clear way. When you read the letter, you can definitely feel the authority that is behind it. And I am 100 percent satisfied with the explanations it gives to all of us who have sometimes pondered on this Open Letter. (I am aware of that the letter is in Danish, but Ulla S. Qvistgaard has done a superb work translating the main part of the letter into English, and for that I thank her.)

Ulla S. Qvistgaard’s contribution above begins with the heading Final Clarifications. But I would go further and say that it is Final answers to the Open Letter question which has ”haunted” us for many years. There is no doubt any longer about whom is behind this Letter to the Danish Bishops. Or at least there should not be any doubt.

Mr Storey writes that we are engaged in speculation (concerning the Open Letter, I hope you mean?) – Up to now, yes. Somehow or other we have speculated about the Open Letter, but not any more. All who wish to find the right answer can finally do that by reading Ulla S. Qvistgaard’s contribution above.

Mr Storey, you wrote: ”In reference to God ’stepping away’ from us humans. Losing patience with us etc. Not going to happen. Never did, never will. Don’t listen to me… listen to your heart.”

Of course God will never abandon us humans. Who have stated that? It is not, has never been, and will never be topical. I suggest that you read Ulla S. Qvistgaard’s posting once more – and this time read it slowly and with an open mind, and do not forget to listen to your heart.

In regard to the other things you write, for instance ”No more youngest being reincarnated?”, I refer once again to Ulla’s contribution above. You will find the answer there.

The Iceberg question, which you brought up in this thread, is simply not relevant here when we are discussing the Open Letter to the Bishops.

But you are absolutely right when you say: ”Toward the Light is not a religion and if you read it you know it was never intended to be.” All of us who have read and understand TTL and its supplementary works subscribe to that.

Again, thank you Ulla for your contribution above, which will drive away much confusion.

Robert K.

By Mara on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 07:02 am:

I just wanted to add a quick and huge THANK YOU to Ulla for sharing and translating this important document. I have pondered this question much and have finally come to peace with it, since the explanation is absolutely logical and I am glad that it was not a 'mistake'. So, thanks again, Ulla!
Love,
Mara

By Carsten Ploug Olsen on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 11:10 am:

Hi again;

I thank you, Ulla, for drawing our attention to this letter. I am perfectly satisfied with it. The bottom line is, as I understand it: The official acceptance or non-acceptance of Toward the Light. In some way this must come to pass. Scientifically, theologically whatsoever. If it does not within the time limit, known only by God, He will break of all connection with mankind. As long as the vast majority of mankind does not even want to consider this great message, there is nothing He can do. Humans must choose of their own. Thanks again!

By Carsten Ploug Olsen on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 09:08 pm:

For me part of the difficulties in understanding why, God perhaps had to cut of the bondage between Him and mankind, was that I simply could not believe, that He sends us this great message in 1920, and then, only 18 years after, He, through one of His messengers, said, that this could be the case.

But now, having read Inger Agerskovs full text for the second time (I did not pay enough attention to it the first time, I red it, I guess), I think, that I understand it better. I have come to a conclusion, that gives me peace of mind. I would like to draw your attention to another text, no 56 in Q&A II: It is the question that deals with the riddle of the not-created. Here it is said, that the answer to this question, the riddle of the uncreated, could first be given, when TTL was officially accepted and recognized, and that this may happen "in c. 100 years, perhaps some thousands of years".

I guess, that this is the answer to my question: It is NOT over and done with the danish bishops in 1938 to 1940, but in "some thousands years"; in some way or the other, the message has got to be accepted and recognized, if God and the Youngest should continue to work directly with mankind, during this period. So we still have time!

This implicates also, that during this period, the etherrecordings might disappear, (TTL says, that the etherrecordings were often given for "several hundreds of years"), so that mankind, before time is up, has got every possibility for making a free choice.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 12, 2002 - 02:11 am:

WHAT MORE CAN OUR FATHER GIVE US?WE MUST STUDY THESE TRUTHS SO WE MAY BELIEVE AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL KNOW.MANY OF US HAVE FOUND THE MOTHER LODE BUT MANY STILL SEARCH FOR GRAINS.WHAT HAS BEEN GIVEN IS A TOOL, BUT A TOOL IS USELESS IF NOT USED.KNOW SISTRS AND BROTHERS THAT HELP IS BUT A THOUGHT AWAY.HELP US ALL FATHER TO DO WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DO.


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