Children and Toward the Light
Amelius Publishing House Discussion Board: Toward the Light: Children and Toward the Light
Greetings to all,
I would like to pose a theme of great interest to me. As I have just had a child and take care of other children as well, I ponder many times which is the best ways to bring a child to a natural understanding of the truths in Toward the Light and eventually accept the message as a natural part of his life.
Most of this probably just comes naturally, as he watches me pray and act in the world and talk to friends ( my husband has not fully accepted TTL, we don't talk about it anymore, but he understands how I feel about it).
Does anyone here have stories and ideas to share about their children, or children in general?
For anyone interested, I would like to point out a book called "The wise child" which gives some simple but interesting ways to teach your child to trust their conscience and intuition, therefore trusting in their higher self and in God's guidance.
I would love to talk about education and TTL to anyone interested. So, here are some questions which might hopefully make things easier:
1. do you work with children or have your own children, and do you have special resources and experiences to share that have helped in bringing the children closer to TTL?
2. is it alright to talk to children about God if the parents do not believe in it? Should permission be asked, so as not to create conflict within a family? For example, if a child asks me about death, and the mother believes that you are just 'gone' can I mention that other believe differently?
3. I wonder if the way we come into this world has a big impact on the trust and outlook on life. My son was born at home, into gentle light and to a song welcoming him into the world. I had no fear or tension and was aware of the fact that when the child is born, his spirit fully merges with his physical body, wanting to make this moment as pleasant as possible.
He is very healthy, and unbelievably bright and peaceful for his age (which is 4 months).
As I am writing I know that even if children had a rough birth ( complications etc.) that I am sure it can be made better by the knowledge and love of the parents.
I know I can find the answers within myself, but I would still like to share experiences and thoughts.
So much for today,
Love and light and joy to all,
Mara
Dear Mara,
So nice to see other people getting actively involved, and with such an important topic as well.
I would like to comment if I may even though I do not have a child living with me - but I was one once, along time ago, and I have thought long and hard about how I wish my next life to begin.
I did not find TTL until I was over 30 and I sometimes (often) wish I had been able to be instructed in the Truth much earlier.
But I also wonder if the Gifts would have had as much of an effect if I had not had something to compare them to.
When young I was of course - as I lived in the so-called 'west' - forced to endure the agony of 'sunday school' and the hateful and fear inducing mantras of the religious cult my parents thought they had to belong to so as to gain 'social' acceptance.
Even at that age - although not realized why until being offered and accepting of TTL - I totally rejected everything that stemmed from that cult's indoctrinations, and in time my parents simply gave up trying to force me to go through this pain once each week. We still had to sit through the other 'required' motions such as public prayer for show at family gatherings such as meals and being given and 'gushing over' a religious fairy tale book given as a gift from grandparents and others. But as mentioned, perhaps if not faced with and rejecting such misguided nonsense I would not have accepted the Truth when it was offered to me.
In another thread I mentioned Gautama Buddha, and his eventual decision to search out a truth being caused by his early life. His family in India of his time was a warrior clan and his physical father was a warlord and they were very wealthy. His early life was one of protection and wealth, with slaves to manage every step of his life and answer his every need and whim. He was not exposed to the reality of the life of the people under his families control until he once went outside of his families 'compound' and saw the misery and degradation of those so controlled. He immediately rejected his family and his former life of earthly luxury and, now estranged from his entire family, began his wanderings in search of truth. He never reunited with his family and died without ever again returning to his family's 'compound' and never again spoke with any member of his family.
Your message also draws to mind the Speech of Christ in Doctrine of Atonement and the Shorter Road, especially page 28, but so much of the Speech of Christ is, I feel, directed like a beam of light straight at parents.
As to your question: 2. is it alright to talk to children about God if the parents do not believe in it?
I don't believe it is alright. At least not to directly contradict what is believed by the parents. One of the things I find especially repulsive about some people is their self-proclaimed 'certainty' in their chosen belief system. It is repulsive when done by those wallowing in the darkness of religious cults and is, again in my opinion, even more repulsive for those wishing to share the Truth to attempt to browbeat or undermine another family in any way.
If there is one thing that will stop me from associating with another person it is interference in any aspect of my family. I do not understand how it can be acceptable for someone to try and shove down anyones throat a differing concept. Discussion with an adult in a non-disparging way is of course certainly necessary so one can gauge acceptance or rejection but not when done as interference, and especially not as practiced by so many religious cults and government cults of catering to or indoctrinating the child against the parent. Ask yourself how you would feel should outsiders speak in private to your son about how 'strange' your ideas were because they do not mesh with the religious fairy tale books.
'Good intentions' they say when it is really 'bad intentions.'
As you mentioned, your child was born at home and I have been witness to a home birth and the amazing beauty of such an event. I have been offered and accepted the gift of the 'cream' (sorry I forget the name at the moment) covering the newborn child and spread it over my face and neck - which I do believe is why now at over 50 I do not have even one wrinkle and is also why my wife gets so (jockingly?) distressed at the wirnkles she - in comarison to me, has at 18 years my junior. Yet, I am sure that while you were making this decision to have your child born in love rather than in the violence as is so often found in 'hospital' births, you were constantly besieged by those 'well-meaning' outsiders - meaning anyone but YOU - telling you it was not safe or actually dangerous; trying to get you to accept their way so as to justify their choice by doing as they do/did. At the home births (3 actually) I attended, the mother and father were even threatened with legal action if they went forward with THEIR plans and it was exceedigly difficult for them to even find a 'doctor' to stand by in the event of difficulties.
People are so afraid of others doing opposite to them - especially when they know deep inside that THEY had been incorrect, and they only way they can again 'feel good' about THEIR decision is to ensure others make the same decision.
To continue; Better I feel to show by act. For example, I would never give a 'toy gun' as a gift to a child or fill their minds with the prattle of magic or playing with darkness (with apologies to those who feel movies like Harry Potter are innocuous). If a child does - and this often happens - in the spirit of 'play' as they see it on TV or in movies of 'shooting' at me with a toy gun, I simply look sad and turn away. I know it is not the 'child' that has from their own spirit brought this aspect into their life but the parent or older relative or friend that has done the damage and I can only hope that as the child grows this terrible strain of causing death - even in 'play' will be wiped from their mind.
Still though, children need to be exposed to the darkness all around them as well as the light and be given instruction as to the difference - but only by their physical parent and no 'outsider'.
Yes, when you child sees the horror around him explain to him that some people kill and hate and hurt and lie and steal but that that is not the way of Truth and Light - especially when he asks, at whatever age, as it is at that moment he will be most accepting of the answer - and let him see you as the model for his life not lying even a little or hurting or hating or stealing.
In N. America, parents are constantly asking the question "Why does my child use drugs?" - never examining what the child sees every day. If mom or dad can't quite get 'going' in the morning they pop a pill. If they can't get to sleep at night they pop a pill. If they have a headache they pop a pill. When they are in a group they abuse alcohol so they can have a good time (amazing how they can justify such a harmful brain-cell destroying drug as acceptable just because it has been legalized and is taxable). And then they lie to their children about the dangers of some 'other' drugs that are not as dangerous (but still not a good option for 'entertainment' or 'recreation') and ignore the warning for the drugs that are extremely dangerous.
And then, after seeing such activity on the part of their parent(s) and older relatives and friends of their parents, when the child gains such an age when emulation of those older becomes their main 'goal' - usually at around 6 or so - and copies the acts they see around them in the belief that this is the right way - and the parents then criticize and condemn, and society criticizes and condemns, and then takes a pill and a drink to stave off the 'anguish' felt by the parent at their child's 'strange' behavior - can it do less than totally confuse the child and immediately destroy any bond of trust that may have existed previously?
And if the child then experiments with one of the 'warned' against drugs and finds it is not as dangerous as the parent told them, does not that in itself cause them to disbelieve about the other more dangerous drugs and draw the child into experimentation with the extremely dangerous simply because they can now no longer believe their parents or society and thus end up hopelessly addicted to drugs like heroin and cocaine and as so often happens - dead at a young age? With much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the parents as they blame society and everyone else save themselves.
I think your son, as are the children of all those who in this life have been exposed to the Truth, has chosen your family - as the other children chose their family - BECAUSE you have accepted the Truth and the Light. THEY wanted to be born into a family where they would have the opportunity to be exposed to the Truth at an early age - not as a doctrine but as a lifestyle - so that they would know, before they had the opportunity to be exposed to Darkness, that the Light was the correct way and the Shorter Road.
And this is my main hope for my next life - that I will be born into a family where at least my mother knows the Truth so she can instruct me in the Light and I can stave off as many of the errors I made early in this present life.
If nothing else, the nice thing about this is YOUR SON CHOSE YOU - for a reason, and in my feelings the reason is your knowledge and acceptance of the Truth and the Light.
My love to your son,
Colin
Hello everyone,
Children and TTL... Well, isn't it rather easy, really? Of course we are lucky to we have such clear guidelines in that book.
I agree with Colin that we should not ever interfere with the religious/philosophical education of other peoples' children. After all, those children have accepted to be born into those families - so perhaps they need to face a certain kind of problem with regard to religion and belief that we know nothing about.
If you feel very strongly that a child is going through a crisis, because he/she hears the other children talking about God, angels, etc. - you might then approach the child's parents and tell them about the problem you feel the child is facing. But you would be in for trouble if you start talking about religious subjects to the child...
Colin - you are so right when you say that it is a repulsive behaviour to try to indoctrinate other people (or their children) with any kind of personal belief. Many representatives of the greater religions, especially Catholicism, find that this is a totally normal behaviour - they have a "mission" and they should go and save people, especially the innocent... Unfortunately this attitude still exists.
As for teaching children about TTL - well, I have two children, a daughter of 14 and a son of 5. Although my husband has not read TTL, he knows the basic thoughts of the book and he accepts that I talk about these thoughts to our children. In fact, his own experiences with the Catholic Church when he was a child and a teenager, have caused him to mistrust this religion - from a purely philosophical point of view. He does not like the contradictions of the established religion, and as he has found no contradictions hitherto in what I have to say (and he probably never will ;-)) - he has nothing to say when I discuss reincarnation with our daughter.
Still, so as not to be disrespectful to those people my children will meet in their life and who probably know nothing about life and death etc. as exposed in TTL, I started from scratch, so to speak: I began with "counter-questions" when my daughter began to ask her inevitable questions on the matters concerning God, death, etc. If she asked, say, "What happens when we die?" I would encourage her to imagine for herself, first, what she thought might be possible out of the choices I could offer her. Then, when she could not envision neither the Christian idea of Paradise/Hell nor the atheist thought that after life there is simply nothing - I would offer her TTL's explanations, while still saying, "This is what I believe. Throughout life, you will encounter many persons who do not believe this. Even your father is not sure what he really believes - each one of us should study these topics, when we feel the need of doing so. You should always consult your conscience - for only you can answer all these questions for yourself, in the end. You will feel what is the truth, when you find it."
I think this is the right approach - at least it is for me. I was rewarded with a short essay my daughter was asked to write in school. It is not without pride that I publish the translation of this piece for you.
The 12-year-olds were asked to answer the following questions:“The fundamental questions of man: who am I? Why do I live? Where do I come from and where am I going? Who is God, to me?”
My daughter answered:
“I am a human being as we all are. I feel that I am like all other human beings – this should not be understood in the way that I have the same character or looks, but in the way that I am a child of God, as I believe everyone is. I am convinced that I live from my own choice, because I have asked God to live and to make new experiences. I think that I come from a world that is different from the Earth, far more beautiful, a fantastic world – even though I do not know where it is, I am certain that it exists, because I feel it deep within myself. I believe that I will return to this place when I die, and that I will continue living without my body, with my spirit, my soul. I believe that the so-called “hell” does not exist for those human being who have done evil in their lives on Earth, for God forgives everyone, and in some way or other he always tries to lead them onto the right path. Still, we should always try on our own account never to make wrong choices, by listening to our conscience. One should meet life with joy and not be afraid of death or of meeting God, for he is our father, our best friend; he is always ready to listen to us; he is unique.”
Please forgive me - but I couldn't help boasting about this (says the proud mother).
Love to all,
Ulla
An after-thought
It strikes me, Colin, how poor Mara must feel in this moment… She only asked a few simple questions wanting some human comments and suggestions, and here we both burst along, one way or another – you fall over her with bared teeth sounding like another one of those dooms-day-preachers that tell people what is sin and what is not – while I give my own sleek sunshine story of “how perfect a mother I am” basing myself on a very fortunate incident without saying anything about those times when I simply forget to cook, or wash my children’s favourite t-shirts, or…etc. etc. Actually, to tell the truth I am a rather absentminded mother, most of the time with my head in the clouds… But I do make a nice pizza! :-)
Loving thoughts,
Ulla
Hi to everyone!
Ulla,you have all the right to be proud. Seems that your daughter is on the right way toward the light.
Mara, I also agree with Ulla and Colin trying to don't interfere without the permission of the parents. But it also depends: are you a teacher? How old are the kids?
I ask this because a few months ago, my son (8 years, I also have a daughter of 12) came home from school crying “I don’t understand anything more: in religion the teacher says that God created the world and that we descend from Adam and Eva and the teacher of history says that the universum was created by the Big-Bang and that we descend from the monkeys! They want to make explode my brains?”
Here we can clearly see that even the children do understand that there must be something wrong. For me it was now easy to answer to the question “who is wrong and who is right, mama?” by trying to explain following the words of TTL.
But maybe if the child only hears one explanation? Can he already understand? Propably he would beleive in a unique teaching not knowing that even that is wrong. Isn’t it better to make to know further possible answers hoping that his spirit and his guide would lead him to the right way? Maybe in the childhood it’s easier to listen to his guide.
And if the child was destinied to encounter Mara and her teaching of God and Love on his way?
Colin, concerning the toy-weapons, I also never wanted to see my children playing with guns. But my son, when still sitting in the perambulator, everytime and everywhere shooted with his fingers with his toys and even with clothes pegs. With a few months he couldn’t have seen anyone shooting with a gun nor a toy weapon. Moreover his elder sister played with another type of toys and watching the television wasn’t allowed.
Who can explain this?
Light to all,
Susi
Hello everyone,
I meant to answer sooner, but since I have a full-time job (writing at home and childcare) I have little time. Ulla, I was so very touched by your daughters essay, it brought tears to my eyes, thank you so much for sharing this. She is very lucky to have you for a mother and sounds like a very special person. I love what you said about teaching your children, and telling them right away that there are different beliefs out there and to trust their own conscience in this.
Thank you also Susi for your thought. Here are some thoughts on toy guns. When me and my brother were younger we had some guns ourselves, water pistols, and one I remember where you put a strip of paper in and it makes a nice bang . my parents were peace activists, even wrote books on the subject. They never fought, we did not watch TV and turned out to be both increadibly peace-loving people. The playing we did was completely innocent, no association about actually killing anyone, and it did not make us violent. I would not buy toy guns for my child, but I suppose it all depends on how it is treated, how the parents act around the children etc. The peace marches we went to, singing with lots of people, made a much bigger impression.
I want to write so much, but I will make it short.
I agree, Colin, that living the right way, not lying etc. is certainly the best way.
Now I would like to share my situation briefly which is why I pose the question about what to talk about to other children.
Me and my husband take care of a 4-year-old girl more than 40 hours 7 days a week. We live in the same house and trade childcare for rent. Her mother is completly un-spiritual and I have never said anything to her in regards to God or anything whatsoever and even, with her mothers wishes, played along with the Santa game. I am fully aware of the fact that it is not good to go against someone elses beliefs and I am far from indoctrination anyone. It is just very hard for me sometimes, especially when she is sick and feeling lonely and sad, missing her mama (she does not have a father, was artifically made, sorry about the expression), that there is someone else looking out for her, that there is more to life than toys which she has TONS of . I just hold her and pray that she feels Gods love, I recently sang a lullaby for her with just the words that the universe loves her and the stars kiss her goodnight ( as I can not mention God).
Sometimes I wonder thought, shall I hide anything about what I believe in? My son watches me pray ( my prayers are like dances, but that is another subject). She needs a lot of loving attention, very needy sometimes, but also very brave and sweet, I don't really know what I am saying. I suppose, should she ask me about something, that I could tell her that people believe different things and that there is nothing really wrong about telling her some of what I belief. I will always ask my conscience before saying anything, and I would never say to a child, this is how it is and you have to believe this.
So much for now. I love reading about your experiences, as I know noone else who knows about TTL and has children.
What school does your daughter go to, Ulla, where they even pose such an essay question?
Lots of love and light to you all,
Mara
Thank you Mara, for your loving words and the clarification. I can see now that your position is very complicated, concerning the little girl. I agree with what Susi says: God probably meant her to be cared for by someone like you, so as to compensate for the "incomplete" way she has entered the world (I too have to apologize for the expression). I am sure many children enter this world with the need to get as close to TTL people as they possibly can.
Still the question remains, how can you possibly spend all those hours with the child without ever mentioning God? This is absurd to pretend! The stars and the universe... thanks to your creativity you have found a momentary solution. Santa, you say - the mother does not mind that her daughter believes in Santa Claus? But God is off-limits? Of course God is infinitely more complicated to deal with, later...
Very complicated indeed. Is there any way you can approach the mother and ask her if it is alright that you offer alternative solutions to the child - like, say, telling her that some people believe in God and others don't? That some feel there is a loving Father watching over the universe, the stars and us - but that others prefer to trust just themselves? You would have to confer with the mother anyway, perhaps telling her that you clearly understand the child needs more than the emptiness of the physical universe.
Else, you have only your example to rely on - meaning, your behaviour, the tone of your voice, the children's books you read to her, etc.
Anyway, whatever you do, this child will grow up remembering you and she will gradually become very, very curious about what makes you like you are - as opposed to what made her mother choose to have a child "artificially"... And this will be only the beginning!
My daughter wrote her essay two years ago, when she went to "scuola media". It was the religion teacher (a fervent Catholic) who wanted the children to write that essay.
Since a few years it is not obligatory for the children study religion in the public schools, but as they are supposed to learn something about other religions besides Catholicism as well during those lessons (well, they hardly did...The teacher's choice!), I preferred to let my daughter attend religion lessons anyway. I mean, we do believe in God and my daughter is growing up in a Catholic country, so it seems natural that she should learn what Catholicism is about. This will enable her to understand the background of her friends and the Italian part of her family, I hope.
Love & Light to all,
Ulla
Hello Mara,
It appears I must ask for forgiveness. I had no idea my reply to your questions were in any way as described by Ulla as "...you fall over her with bared teeth sounding like another one of those dooms-day-preachers that tell people what is sin and what is not.."
That was certainly not my intent and I will now withdraw from this discussion.
Colin
Hi to all.
I think we can safely take it for granted that in this Forum no one would ever intend to attack anyone aggressively (unless they are "outsiders" who do not know the books we do - perhaps)- and certainly no one has done or is doing this. My remark was supposed to be humorous - upon re-reading our posts, I got this impression that if I were Mara, I would feel a little badly, although it was quite clear that you do not attack anyone writing here, let alone Mara!
Your reaction confirms the impression I have about you, Colin. [Ulla smiles brightly and punches Colin's shoulder... figuratively.] You see, your writings sometimes carry over to me a sensation of such an enormous frustration - with a hint of aggressiveness, yes, I feel this too though I have never perceived it to be directed at anyone in particular. I do understand this kind of frustration and aggressiveness very, very well, admittedly. I think most of us have been biting their nails from sheer frustration that TTL is gathering dust on the shelves of so very few bookshops or in their cardboard cases in silent depots. The next thing we do - just as you also did/do - is try to find out what we can do about it. We feel helpless, and so we become even more frustrated. Also in the Swedish part of Amelius' Forum this attitude is quite clearly present.
Fact is, we know that these truths exist. Most human beings do not.
Through the years, I have adopted a kind of "expectant optimism" - else I would have died from ulcer or who knows what other sneaking disease - long ago. Humankind is so stupid that they do not listen to us? Not even (as in your case) our best friend will listen to us let alone read the book? Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!
So, from aggressiveness I swung to the other extreme: lenient kindness and understanding towards the “poor ones” who had not yet had the opportunity (or the guts! Some are afraid to read a book they know might contain the truth, did you know?) to read TTL. This attitude has helped me through many rather passive years.
Today, something has changed. Strangely enough, I have become more aggressive. This is a result of some considerations that very much resemble some of your own reasonings, Colin. You see, I had this sudden “enlightenment”. Talking to a friend, he made me notice that everyone has a conscience. Yeah, sure, what’s the big deal? I asked. And he said: “You know this, Ulla – and I know this. These people do perhaps not know it all, consciously, but so often, much too often, they act against their conscience without even trying to stop for a brief moment to think about what is right and what is wrong. If everyone listened to their conscience, this world would change from one moment to the next! So, also for example your parents whom you would like to excuse while being lenient with them and trying to find explanations for their errors of the past involved with your education – even they cannot be excused, for they have also acted against their conscience, very very often. Before being born, everyone promises God to do their very best, once born on the Earth, to make this a better place. Things start to go wrong when they don’t listen to their conscience.”
This very neat point of view made me clear away some excessive kindness and softness I had – of necessity! – adapted in order to get on with life. That was a weakness of mine – refusing to understand that being too soft doesn’t work, either. I needed to find the balance. Indeed, I could not just become aggressive (and bare-teethed! ;-)) from one day to the next, could I? I could not very well begin walking about telling everyone they disappointed God, because they did not listen to their conscience. No, another strategy was called for. Nowadays I am trying to channel my “force of aggressiveness” into the work I do to promote and inform about TTL and supplements.
Frustration is useless though a very human feeling. We cannot do any more than try. When we have done all we can, we can do no more – except trying to keep the boat afloat. This is what we are doing right now. Sooner or later, one by one, those ship-wrecked individual who are swimming stubbornly toward where darkness looms, will stop and look around, searching the horizon for alternatives... Wow, there lies a small boat. It looks very safe, and it's got a huge store of food and water in it... Let's swim over there and have some... later we can always jump back into the again and resume our swim…
But most likely they will not, that's for sure - not if their conscience helps them! And no book like TTL enables you to contact your conscience. THIS is the true breakthrough of the Light!
Meanwhile, while we wait for the wet ones to gather their wits, we can let out some steam here, among “ourselves”, so to speak (I do not want to sound sectarian in any way, mind you…) And perhaps, exchanging view and ideas, we will be able to learn some more.
I greatly prefer a person such as you, Colin, who has the courage of stating his points of view without putting on a mask. We have enough of that kind of artificial behaviour in our societies. So, my remark about your aggressiveness was a challenge I threw – an indirect way of (jokingly) saying, hey, why don’t you make better use of all that energy you possess? You are such a great asset to TTL and humanity, Colin. Pour out your ideas, even those you think are banal – you can never know, they might light a nice little bulb in someone’s head, so that we can make a bigger boat out of this little lifeboat. Granted, it is very comfortable…
Lots of love,
Ulla
I am the father of John 14 and Laura 11.
I have learned that children do what we do, NOT, what we say, hope for or theorize.
They watch every move you make...every one.
If you give your views to others they see that.
If you leave others to their own views they see that too.
I will say that God is the most intimate thought there is for a human being. Despite efforts to the contrary, your children will form their own view of this deeply personal subject.
I am guessing that my children see who I am and what I am based on my actions....not on any amount of preaching or helpful advice I might throw their way.
They desparately want to be like us and unlike us all at the same time. Our desire to help them in their struggle means nothing.
Our confidence that they will make it one way or the other will give them the strength to do just that. They really need us to believe in them....that's all. You believe in you? great! Thenm believe in them and the cycle continues.
If you believe a certain way, just be yourself. That is the greatest gift you could ever give them.
Since we've all read Toward The Light, it seems so simple to grasp the following.
Many of the youngest have preceeded us. They brought us beauty and a way of understanding life that could help us.
You are concerned with guns, war, violence, death, injustice. We all know there is plenty of this here.
Fairy tales were given to us by the youngest. They were given to us and we will give them to our children.
This is a cruel, savage planet. Why lie? Should you choose to sugar coat it, your children will sense the lie immediately.
The vast body of work in children's literature was brought to us by the youngest for us.
I am always amused by parents concern about their new babies spiritual upbringing, I was. In retrospect your baby was just in heaven. The new ones remember heaven very well.
I run into people who need to 'believe' in heaven. Silly isn't it? Heaven could give a hoot whether you believe in it or not, it's still there. Those words sunk all the way into my sons heart and, I must assume, will stay there forever. Why?
They are the truth. Truth has this certain bang for the buck that just ain't matched.
Why did I tell my son that? It came to me while we talking in the car...the phrase had nothing to do with me...they were just some verbal based love coming out of my mouth that my mind had nothing to do with.
We spend a great deal of time in our minds thinking about things. There is a river of love in your heart that will answer all those fears that our minds are so busy cooking up.
I guess that makes the mind a chef...maybe the chef burns stuff once in awhile.
Have a great day.
Hello everbody,
I pose these words here - not knowing what is the right board. Every topics are tied together so close...
I’ m sitting here and enjoy really a lot reading all your thoughts (with a goose-flesh from my head to my feet and sometimes with tears in my eyes when feeling coming out the beauty of your spirits even more from your uman mantle) – it’s so wonderful thinking that also I know so much about how “it all works” – I’m a privileged uman being like all of you. (yes, I don’t think that it is wrong being proud/happy for this reason).
And we are becoming more and more persons who understand TTL. And more and more persons are beginning to take their courage and their precious time to answer, to share and to spread love and light. I agree to everyone. THANK YOU EVERYBODY!
Thinking that we aren’t few and that I’m not alone gives me the power to force every new day.
To show you in how little time God is able to change the live of a human being, I want to make you an example by showing you my way in a few words.
Of my later childhood I don’t remember one day passing without any quarrel between my parents. (In fact they did not divorce till a few months after my marriage). Then, I think, I didn’t beleive any more in God. I didn’t beleive in anything and I was full of hate.
Most friends of mine lived in base of socalled dogmas they had found in some books. I couln’t do so. I “invented” a dogma of my own. Every time it was in my mind: Don’t wonder why they behave in that manner – DO IT BETTER!
My friends didn’t understand this – explaining that only a sentence can’t be a dogma....
For me behind these few words there was a whole world in my mind.
But till about thirteen years ago I was still full of hate.
I didn’t want to have children. Only imaging some was a horror for me. Responsibility, education, a regular live, change NAPKINS? – No thank you! I couln’t think of my future, but surely it would be without children.
With my first really great love then happend a socalled “accident”. Although I wasn’t ready spiritually. (propably to repair an error made in a previous life) Abortion didn’t even came in my mind neither in that of my partner (-Thank you, Guide!-). Following the custom of the homecountry of him, we married. Live became really like I never wanted.
But I began to feel real love. Love toward my husband and another type of love toward my child. (it would have been really, really wonderful if I had welcome my daughter in darken light, listening to the divine music of maybe Mozart – Mara you have done very very right! - in spite of the polluted and noisy environment of the hospital where they were renewing the floor...).
Passing the time, my love encreased and I was even able to receice love (or - first I received and then I was able to love?) . So then I learned to forgive and one day I KNEW THERE MUST BE A GOD. And this is thanks to the “incident” - to the children who still are able to behave in a heaven manner.
And one day I finally – or already? – touched TTL.
As everybody of you, readers of the discussin board, the reaction was the same.
Well, to make it short: there have been pasted about 14 years since the beginning of my “transformation”. And I can state that I’m quite without hate, finally. (I was surprised by myself realising to don’t proof any hate against Bin Laden – I’m full full of compassion/sadness for him thinking of the low level he is still walking and of the horrible lifes he will have to pass in the coming thousands of years to repair everything – only here I can amitt this – people would like to lynch also me)
Now I’ve two children and I’m still learning.
It has become easy for me to think wonderful words of love and angels and light. Quite easy is also to write them down (foreign languages apart). But to act according to all this is still difficulty in every situation. The main task in our lives – the most difficult one – will be that of transform our beautiful thoughts and words in action by learning. Only then, beginning with our children, it will be possible to change the world. (according to everyone who is writing to this board) We who know the truth must begin. WE first must be able to act in every second of our life according to our thoughts of our spirit, our guide and naturally that of God. Only then we can pretend the same thing from others.
Yesterday I read in TTL again(italian version p.181) that if the religious and ethical thoughts aren’t entered in the conscience of their spirit as a natural thing, if they haven’t become one thing with their interior being, elevating thus their ethic level , they will have in a discarnated state very little profit of these ideas and these thoughts like a little child,........
We must give them time!
We have the advantage that beginning with our own children they soon will be able to understand. With your own children it’s easier to start to teach. They are more open to the ideas of their parents imitating much of our actions ( – but untill a certain point in the growth of their life) being very sensible even for every glance you give them.
We can give the example. And our children can easier move forwards toward the light being able to understand the opera TTL , while others can’t by now.
It will take still time but I’m optimistical – it will take less time we thought, being a result like that of a multiplication and a calcolation of raising to a higher power (is this the right word in english? If so, it meets exactly the point!) until everybody will know of GOD!
(Oops! Seems that has passed a tornado in my home – I must leave you for a few days)
Love to everyone
Susi
Hello Again,
I have had several days now to re-examine several aspects of not only this conversation but my own thoughts and failings.
I hesitate to come back but there are some comments I would like to add and a question or two if I may.
I was so attracted to this conversation because of my belief in the Truths and especially the specific menton in TTL - page 327 on onward - that "In bringing up the coming generation women have a special task, which many in recent times have partly of completely neglected in order to pursue the struggle for the equal rights of women." A struggle that I fervently believe in by the way.
I find cultures that glorify 'patriarchy' abhorrent as they always result in the denigration of women and girls.
This aspect of 'life' must I feel have been brought about by the 'Dual' of Ardor and as Forgiveness of Ardor is so vital for our Older Brother to 'cleanse' himself, I also feel it is vital for women (and men of course) to forgive Ardor's Dual so she can also 'cleanse' herself.
I was actually struck by the lack of questions asked in Q&A by those earliest involved on this point. There is so little mention when examining the 'questions' asked by humankind regarding specific points for women and girls even though there is mention in TTL of these aspects. It is almost as though the questions asked were themselves asked mostly by 'men'.
I found the question #11 to be a little 'insulting' and obviously asked by a self-important 'man' - but the answer to that question - how beautiful and descriptive, especially the sentence "However, a man's intuition is normally never as strong, pure and clear as a woman's." The answer is also so much more detailed and complete than the answers to many other questions of import that it has also caused me to feel that this point is considered perhaps more vital to Father and the Truth than other questions asked and answered.
It is though this and other specific mentions in TTL that caused my wife and I to discuss and used to make our decision to not have children in this life.
My wife has a career for which she studied many years and continues to try and excel at with continued study and application.
When we examined and went over the mention in TTL that "Women have a self-evident right to take part in social and political life according to their ability, but ONLY if they have no infant children who demand their care; for if the woman is a mother, the task that she has thereby undertaken - the upbringing and maternal care of the young - will suffer on account of her work and duties outside the home.", she decided and I supported that having a child was not right for us as she wanted and needed for her own growth to continue to expand her knowledge and contributions.
The dire warning in TTL that "It is of no avail that such a mother can add: "But I have given much of my time and used many of my talents in the service of my country and my community." and Father's answer to that of being: "you have not served but harmed your country and community, for you have neglected and failed to honour the human spirit that was entrusted to your care, and through your negligence you have given your country a poor and useless citizen."
The continued mention that "Mothers who bring up their children to be truthful, just and peace-loving citizens benefit their nation much more than those who leave the upbringing and maternal care of their children to others in order to participate in social and political life.", also 'scared' my wife and caused much confusion until she made her decision - after which she told me she felt much more confident that her decision was the correct one for her.
In N. America it is now so common for women to have children and within a few months go back to work and 'farm' their child out to a day care center - seeing the child - even at only a few months old - for only a few waking hours each day. Where we live now, it is most common for the child to be handed over to 'grandparents' who instruct the child on 'their' beliefs rather than the the parent's beliefs - much to the consternation and confusion of the parents when the child grows with thoughts and ideas different from theirs.
I have mentioned this to female members of my own family and friends and have - as can be imagined - been soundly insulted as being 'against women' when I am not and am only mentioning what is offered in the Truths.
I support the decision of any woman to do whatever she feels is right for her but as I mentioned once before Ulla in regards to the religious cults, I don't feel a need to respect the sensibilities of anyone using their individual 'free will' to the detriment of others - and especially children - or to intrude on the 'free will' of another - again especially the Free Will children.
I apologize again if I somehow am seen as one commenting on another's 'sin' as I would never do so. I have my own 'sins' and could never justify to myself - let alone Father - even thinking privately that another person was 'sinning'.
I should add regarding my wife's decision that it is not necessary in a financial aspect for her to work - it was rather a concious and examined decision to continue to seek her career and her personal growth in this life and as this aspect of life - having children - is to my mind the purvue more of the mother than the father, I as mentioned supported her completely - and will always defer to her in regards to her intuition on any subject.
It may appear laughable to some but I made a conscious decision before we were married - and it was accepted by my wife - that she should handle our families finances. So here I am at 52 and still receiving an 'allowance' as it were. This though came from my own understanding of a major weakness that I have in regards to money. I'm a terrible saver but an excellent (if erratic and wasteful) spender. So now, and for every pay period since the decision was jointly made, I simply hand over my salary to my wife for her 'management' and this decision has been proven to be the best for OUR family.
In my opinion, there are so many 'laws' that directly have an effect on women and which women were never consulted on when the laws were being drafted and promulgated - that are 'unjust' and even interfering in the plans Father seems to have arranged as I read them in the Books.
I only joined in this conversation from my happiness that there were now more women joining in to share their Light as the world sorely needs women to take a more pre-eminent place in all societies, and especially in areas that are in my opinion ONLY women's 'right' to decide, and I certainly never intended - and never would - to cause feelings of dismay or sadness. This topic is mainly for women to share and - for women such as yourselves that have accepted the Truths - perhaps even more important. My wife would like to join in but her English is not yet of sufficient enough level and I must translate to her what is being written by others here.
Please accept my comments as just those of a 'man' that is seeking understanding of himself by learning what the 'ladies' are talking about regarding these very important points started by you Mara.
Love,
Colin
What a wonderful post, Colin! I would print it in several million copies and then rent a small aeroplane from where to spread it all over Italy!
Repeat: please – please do not consider my former jibes as any kind of attack. You were, as I have written before, only expressing your opinion – an opinion solidly based on TTL itself, and of course there is nothing wrong about doing so.
I also totally agree on what you say, and more precisely:
“…in regards to the religious cults, I don't feel a need to respect the sensibilities of anyone using their individual 'free will' to the detriment of others - and especially children - or to intrude on the 'free will' of another - again especially the Free Will children.”
- as this kind of behaviour is truly unacceptable.
The question concerned Mara’s right to teach the four-year-old her own religious thoughts – as indeed Mara finds herself in an awkward position, caring for such a young child who of course has many questions. I think we have tried to advise Mara as best we can, each from our own perception – which is basically the same…
Unfortunately the “war” between the sexes that has been going on for about 14,000 years, is still very actively fought, on both parts. Women have been treated unjustly and as you correctly state, often the laws concerning their rights have not been based on a consultation with the female representatives of the population – this goes for most countries, probably all.
You are quite right about the blunt and somehow “insulting” tone of Question no. 11… I have often myself tried to justify this tone – but then what did I discover? That the question had been asked by Johanne Agerskov herself!!!
This surprised me, but then researching into the question, I discovered the background. The whole story is explained in detail in JA’s letters, which are available only in Danish.
After their work with the earth-bound human spirits, when the work with TTL began, Johanne A. had the persistent sensation that she was not originally meant to take upon herself also the task of receiving TTL. When the work had been met with almost total indifference in 1920-22 she of course kept wondering that perhaps, if someone more “important” than she had received the work – she was “just a housewife” anyway – then perhaps the Danish clergy would have been more forthcoming.
She probably felt guilty (without reason), and of course she was also profoundly influenced by the attitude of society that told women – directly and indirectly, always – that they were “citizens of secondary importance”. Women’s right to vote, e.g. – was still a completely new feature even in the Danish society: in Denmark, women obtained the right to vote with the new Constitution of 1915. Also, only since 1871 had measures been taken to improve women’s conditions and to allow them access to various kinds of education. In the course of approx. 40 years most educational institutions were opened to women in Denmark.
Thus, Johanne A. lived her life in a period that saw much upheaval and re-organizing of the Danish society.
At that time – as indeed even today in some countries – women were not so very confident about their position in society. So, it was a quite natural reaction that Johanne A. would ask herself, and consequently her spiritual guide, why TTL had been handed to her to work with. A man would have been a more obvious choice, in her opinion. Perhaps a clergyman, or a scientist? Someone whose words would weigh more heavily, in the public opinion.
The answer to Question no. 11 is so beautiful, it truly is! Johanne A. might have considered the information she had received on the nature of God himself… An infinite spiritual being, a personal God containing within him/herself both the feminine and the masculine element, in equal, balanced portions.
But Johanne was a child of her times, as today we are exponents of our moment in historical time.
And we all have our moments of doubt and uncertainty – for someone as “storm-swept” as Johanne, astrally and spiritually speaking, it must have been difficult to keep a balance.
The truth is that God did not want TTL to document only religious matters – as it becomes quite obvious when we read the book. God wanted to offer to humankind a total panorama of the physical and spiritual realities on Earth. It is no coincidence that the book was based on questions asked by human beings. At the time, those who asked were given what they asked for. Today we might ask different questions, though fundamentally our questions would be just the same!
I believe the direction we are heading in today is less “religious” and more ethical and “psycological”. The various religions have run dry, they are in all a state of total stagnation – though it is more pronounced in Western religions. (Perhaps you have different experiences over there, Colin?) The average representatives of the main religions continue to stubbornly “stick out their tongues” at each other, so to speak. (“We have the best religion, because we have Jesus’ dead body as our symbol, mwuhahaha!!!” – or: “We are better than you, because we are God’s chosen people, the rest of you are just baaad…and you even stole our holy book, believing it is your own.” – or even: “We fight and kill the infedels, because this is what God wants us to do, our reward is paradise (with lots of beautiful women, assembled in a heavenly harem, wow…)”[Where do the women go, does anybody know? Do they join the harem?]) So very edifying! Though of course there are ethically correct people living in the framework of all religions, let me not forget this.
Love,
Ulla
Edifying Ulla,
I had no idea whatsoever that it was Ms. Agerskov that penned that question and I am even more pleased that there are letters from her explaining her personal view of her role - but unhappy that her letters are not available to those not versed in Danish as it is obvious to me now, that they may also 'shed Light' on and help clarify some things.
I can understand how she could view her 'role' - when the social/political atmosphere within which she lived is taken into consideration as you have explained it - and that it would cause her to have doubts - unfounded as they were and still are - as to her 'suitability' for the task she accepted.
Now though I may have to apologise to the men reading for my idea that such a 'nasty' question had to have been asked by a man.
Sorry guys.
Love,
Colin
Hello everyone,
how much I wish I had more time to post here. I have to hold myself back, otherwise I would not get any work done. So many beautiful things have been said in the meantime, Colin, I agree with Ulla that your last post should be spread far and wide. I really value your opinions and am glad you returned to this board (no need to apologize).
Thank you Ulla for claryfying so many things once more, and Tom and Susi for sharing your stories and views.
We had also decided not to have any children, our economical situation was not great and we felt that there were many things we could do in this life, possibly helping other children too. Now when it so unexpectantly happened I was happy anyways, I love children and vowed to give my best and all I could do to make this life an easy and happy one for the spirit that wanted to come in.
When I was barely 3 months pregnant I prayed for my childs wellbeing and saw him, looking at me with a smile, a beautiful young man. I then knew I was going to have a boy, and so much more, it is hard to express, all this love!
I do have to work and wish I did not, but I can do it at home and do it when he is asleep, during his naps and at night (right after I write here), so that he would not suffer under it. I will not give him away to other people and fully know about the responsibility placed on me and on every mother. I can see it with the 4-year-old girl we take care off what effect the daycare has on her that she goes to for ca.35 hrs. a week in addition to being taken care of by babysitters after school too. I could go into detail, but I am sure you know what I mean.
I don't even know how mothers can bare it to be away from their children. I enjoy every second with my son.
I haven't even really started, but I shall return when I have more time. Thank you everyone for your honesty and clarity and caring thoughts.
Love,
Mara
Hello everyone,
When my vacation started a little more than a month ago I printed out everything on this forum and since then I've been reading everywhere!
Under my appeltree in the sun, in bed late at night when the rest of my family was sleeping etc.
Now my vacation is over and I've been working for some weeks and FINALLY I finished my reading.
And I would like to add some comments.
I apologise if my comments is gathered under the wrong thread, but I felt this was the right one even if it's a long time since this discussion ended. (or took a pause)
At first I would like to share some thoughts with you, COLIN!
You have talked about many interesting things and you have started more than one process in my mind.
Thank you!
It was very interesting to read your comments on gnosticism, since I (barely) scratched the surface of it when I was at school last term.
Sometimes when I read your messages I feel a sense of despair that makes my heart ache!
You sometimes talk about your next incarnation with a heartbreaking longing.
That makes me think of a song they play pretty often in the radio nowadays.
A part of the refrain goes "...erase and rewind.."
I have had that thought more than once when I made my major mistakes in life.
But there is one thing that is worrying me....
I truly believe that every single one of us have got a "mission" from our Father to accomplish in this earthlife.(This is possible for human souls or am I wrong????)
And isn't there a risk that if we give in to that despair we may miss the opportunities to do what we are planned to do, or just not be able to hear our Father when he calls us???
Please, Colin, don't take this as criticism!
The reason I dare to speak with you about this is the fact that I myself was SO CLOSE to do just this less than a year ago.
When I read the TTL-books in -98 I was knocked out by them.
And when I had thought about everything some time I was so happy that I was allowed to be a part of this and I thought that Father had give me a special task even though I didn't know what it would be.
And in early spring last year I thought He gave me a hint and I followed it.
I started a new job and I went to school.
At school the environment was really tough for me, especially since I couldn't be silent about the Truth I had found.
I felt choked, and I started to wonder if I had made a terrible mistake.
I really felt bad.
I called Robert and he gave me a perspective on this matter that I had missed.
And a few days later our Father gave me a hint about the reason I should be at this school.
I managed to pull myself together and now I believe I am on the "right track" again.
I only have a small feeling about what my "mission" really is but I trust Father to lead me.
I would like to ask you Colin, PLEASE don't leave us, we need you and our Father need you.
I am sure you have a very important "mission"!
All my love to you and your family!!!
And ULLA,
you have all the right to be proud of your daughter!!
The things she wrote was absolutely beautiful and I would like to share an experience I had with my daughter last year.
My daughter is to be 15 in december and last year it was time for her to start her "education" before going to communion.
When she got the letter with her invitation to this education we talked about it and decided that we should read Ardors story together and then she would decide what she wanted to do.
When we came to the part where the Eldest realized
that he couldn't incarnate himself, that he was all alone and "hatred arose in his heart" (my free translation), she looked at me and said:
"Oh Mummy, I feel so sorry for him"!
That was a great moment for me, she had grasped the whole thing even before she had heard the story to the end.
It is a great joy when your children understands the truth!
My best wishes to you and your family!
Ps. I like your free speach and your humour, they are great "tools" in our work for the light, we really need a smile every now and then.
And MARA,
I am a teacher and a mother of four.
You really are in a complex situation.
I agree with Ulla, you and the love you give this little girl means the world to her and I too believe that one day she will "figure you out" and hopefully she will then understand that she been living with the Truth all the time even if it wasn't put to words.
Children do have the ability to know things even if we don't speak them out.
Your creativity in this matter is fantastic and I believe you are doing the right thing.
Well, I hope I haven't been to emotional in this.
From now on I will keep my eyes on this place and I will come back.
Until then....
Love and Light to you all!!
Yvonne
Dear Yvonne,
Welcome among us in the famous, one and only Amelius Forum! - it is always such a positive experience when new people arrive, adding their perspectives and colours to this place. Then we know that there is yet another person like ourselves who will try to catch any opportunity to throw Light on life! (I wonder how many we really are?)
You have been through the same situations that most of us know so well... The enthusiasm about VML, the wish that everyone we know - and do not know - may be inspired to share our experience. Often we simply have to tell others about VML - and almost always we are in for disappointment. But this will not be forever.
I agree with you - yes, we all have a mission, and I see that you have successfully completed at least one of yours, by discussing "what lies behind" with your daughter. My compliments - she is an intelligent girl - a spirit in close contact with her heart. May the Light always be her guiding star!
And thank you, Yvonne - we certainly DO need smiles 
.
This is what I am trying so hard to tell Colin, dear, dear Colin... [I want to kiss him, slap his face, express my rage at his sometimes gloomy moods - then stroke his hair and tell him everything will be alright - and that he is a fighter - SO FIGHT, MAN!!! respond, act... - and then I will embrace him (tightly) and say, Brother, we're in this together, all of us...So don't you ever DARE feel lonely!] And this goes for everyone. (If I am being too emotional, do not hesitate to slap me back... But what's wrong with feelings, anyway?)
Love to all,
Ulla
Ulla!
Thank you for your welcoming and warming words.
It's a true joy to be one among you and it really feels great that we have this very special place where we can "meet".
I'm sure we meet again soon!
Take care!
Love
Yvonne