Every year on Friday before Eastern, the Catholics repeat the cruce-way of Jesus. Here in some towns, this ritual is repeatet by persons wearing long, black coats with long hoods (like form of the dresses of members of the KuKluxKlan) saying prayers all the time accompanied by the dark sound of drums, that makes me arise goose-flesh every time from the discomfort.

I agree, not to forget the dark sides in our history. But shouldn't we loose(gain!) more time in thinking about all the good deeds of Jesus and of his lightbeing?

Well, my eight year-old son will celebrate the communion next year. For that, in this period he also must join in the child-procession every friday till Eastern. But he doesn’t want to. (He answered: “Only because Jesus has gone that way, I should do the same? And the next time, I should also carry the cruce?”)

I tell you this because I’m in a constant conflict. I was teached the catholic religion and so was my husband. Now I don’t agree with the catholic dogmas but my husband does (he doesn’t accept TTL)
I’ve never been able to live like a Catholic. Now, to give a “good example” for my child, I should behave like a Catholic (go to church every Sunday, join in the procession, apart from behaving in a good, brave manner,....). This causes me great difficulty. (Not the behaviour – I’m good like an angel – hmmmmm – whistle, whistle – O. K. I try to behave to be good like an angel - one day - You know, what I mean, going to church, ....)

Now, If you allow, I’d like to hear (unfortunately only read) your opinion: should I oblige my son even to join the procession?
TTL teaches to not change the religion. That’s quite clear for me because every religion contains some truth. And so it would be always the same in the context. So the only logical way to take for me would be that what has done Mara. For me it would be the right way, I think.
Being only few on the Earth knowing TTL, others would not understand and though this could create more confusion among them, maybe? Maybe I’m afraid of the judgement of the people? I don’t know.
My husband says that poor, ignorant people (and here in South-Italy there are still a lot) need some kind of religion (provided that the aim is a good one) whereupon they can lean.
They would not be able to understand a contact with God and other beings of light only on a mental way.

I thought to teach the catholic religion to my children AND all that I know having learned from TTL. But inside of me, I’m not serene.
Can you give me some help? May I ask for your opinion?


Love and Light
Susi

By Diamond Jim on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 08:00 pm:

Suzi, your question deserves a response . . .

I was once a young boy in a Roman Catholic Church, awed with the ritual and pagentry of it all, I remember sitting outside the confessional dutifully trying to come up with some venial sins to be forgiven for . . . Yes, I am trying to be funny, it is a serious question you ask Suzi (perhaps this is why a hush fell over the room ;-) let us try and approach it with a light heart, remembering that the Light IS advancing everywhere on this earth. I do not have answers but I have some opinions formed from my own experience that may illuminate the landscape for you. I can speak with some experience about the question you have posed about your child's pending involvement with the practices of the church because the Roman Catholics took my soul . . . I got it back, rescued it from the swamps of guilt and shame but that mark is on me.

In the culture I was raised in (Canadian) there were numerous religious groups all living in the same neighbourhoods but there was a division between protestant, catholic and public schools (where everyone who wasn't protestant or catholic attended), as children we had no idea of what this division was all about . . . we knew the other kids were different but as is the case with most religions there is no explanation of the beliefs of other religions, only warnings that these people are somehow corrupted. Now, mix together the child's natural efforts of sorting out the world around him or her and the power of their imaginations to create reasons why these other kids are different. Voila . . . we have it the seeds of hatred. The greatest burden I bear is the knowledge that these seeds of hatred continue to be buried in the hearts of children everywhere . . . primarily because of religious "differences".

I have told this story because I have an opinion on this idea of "protecting" children from religion and I want to voice it. My opinion is that where you live and what is going on the society around you is very important and that decisions like those that you have described Suzi are the same as many, many other people are facing. Here, I can describe the small movement of people in North American society who state that their "religion" is pagan. They face immense discrimination from the mainstream culture because they have taken the option of refusing to believe in any of the "top ten" religions. There are so-called pagans living in small towns all over the U.S. , Europe and Canada where they are looked upon with suspicion and in some cases parents will not allow their children to associate with the children of "devil-worshiping pagans". So what happens . . . the mainstream culture - largely because of ignorance - cannot understand the motivations of the "pagan culture" so it casts suspicion on it and panders to those cursed seeds of hatred that were buried in us as children.

At this point most people throw up their hands and say "what is the point !!! this is the way that humanity IS and we will have to live with it". I refuse to accept this "shrugging of the shoulders", this resignation to the belief that human nature will always be this way. Perhaps, there is another way and that is to help children understand that within each one of them there is a direct connection to God . . . a place of peace within them . . . we should show children that place in times of crisis in their lives and give then the gift of beinng able to heal themselves.

We should show them that the "place of peace" within then is not the domain of any earthly religion, it is the domain of God and that it is God that has given them the right to exist . . . no one, no one has any say in this, it is the child's possession that he has been given by God. As for the external world, we can help children by not making, essentially intellectual, decisions that will give them any disadvantage in "fitting in" into their social environment. The "place of peace" connection with God does not have to be something the child broadcasts to everyone, especiallly if the child associates it with times of crisis (isn't this when we need God the most?).

The child can participate in (and learn to tolerate) any religious/cultural form and see it as "human" if they are convinced and confident they they know the way to God's house (love) if they need him. If you think I am being idealistic . . . I am, children taught me to be that way . . . they loved me unconditionally and I vowed to my self I would never allow anything in this world kill their ability to return love to the world -- unconditionally . . . I brought them into God's Garden and showed them his House, now they know the way there . . . I know they will never be lost.

My idealism is also tempered with worldliness, I told my children that if they are ever "cornered" by anyone about the nature of their beliefs, they can talk about their "place of peace", their portal to God's kingdom . . . when I told them this they looked back at me silently and in my own "place of peace" I heard a voice that said "Yes, the truth is powerful". Whatever the argument, children who possess a way to love God directly never feel threatened or undermined by the dark threats that religion poses for the human heart. No, we should not even try to engage religion in battle over ritualistic practices, by doing so we give these societal structures power . . . a power which would be better invested in our own direct spiritual connection to God's love.

I do know if my thoughts will be of any benefit to you but I offer them for what they are worth. The time for worried silence is over. Again, I say approach this topic with a light heart, humour goes a long way towards cracking the stiff face of religious oppression wherever it exists.

Godspeed to the children,

'Diamond' Jim

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 04:50 pm:

So you beat me to it, Jim – I have also done some thinking about Susi’s question and I wanted to respond yesterday, only I felt there was more to it. As it is, I see that you have filled in the ‘empty spaces’ for me, stating the heart of the matter.

I might have just gone down the two flights of stairs that separate Susi and myself here in little old Cercola, but perhaps someone else would like to join in the discussion, so I choose to place my thoughts here. It should be noted to other readers of the Forum that Susi and I have discussed this matter often – inevitably.
Susi, you did well to open this thread on the “Questions and Answers” board – in fact, in Q&A there is a very important question concerning the “measure” or parameter we may use to determine whether something is true or not – more precisely Q&A Supplement I, question no. 10. The question goes: “Is there any precise measure humans may apply when they need to determine the valour of the ‘spiritual truths’?” (Or words to this effect; I do not possess the English edition of Q&A, so please bear with the approximation.)

The answer is rather short – as in fact there is not much to say on the subject: when faced with the truth, any spiritually evolved individual will experience a feeling of complete calm and peace, when the right answer has been found and the person intuitively recognizes it to be true. “For the peace and rest experienced in the recognition of the truth will always be in clear contrast to the disquiet of uncertainty and lies.”
Needless to say that this ‘method’ can be used with any question or doubt we need to clarify – and this is also the mechanism Jim describes in his ‘idealistic’1 approach in advising his own children: when faced with the truth, no one will ever be able to ‘put it down’ or ridicule it – especialli in this case concerned with the core value of God’s existence within us all. Speaking this truth dismantles everyone and everything. The darkness cannot resist this bright light. Simplicity beats everything!

It is not always easy to live among people who are being led around a desert in haphazard tracks like a flock of sheep, all extremely hungry and thirsty. Each day, we are faced with the structures of popular traditions, more or less ethical laws of our societies, expectations of others, etc. etc. – and it is sometimes so difficult to just stand there, with our huge picnic basket (from where whiffs of aroma come forth, from the roast chicken, the applepie, the Chateau Briand, etc.) – and a case of cold mineral water…

As you know, Susi, I allowed that my children be baptized (in respect of VML’s desire that everyone remains with their original church – and unfortunately here the ‘original church’ is the catholic church) – but I insisted that they should not be faced with the practice of “communion” and the false teachings of the cathechism. I am glad to say that my husband agrees with me in this choice, and I am also lucky to have a family of in-laws who do not interfere with my choices.

I know that you are under a great pseudo-religious pressure from your husband’s family – or more correctly, it is a pressure of tradition. They are all looking forward to a wonderful communion-party, I believe, a gorgeous ten course lunch, lots of guests to gossip about, “bomboniere” and everything. So, what to choose? Should you rebel and try to force them into understanding the way you think? Hm. Hardly possible to convince someone who has no notion of the religious truths so far … On the other hand, you say your husband speaks of his countrymen as “primitive people who need a religion of some kind”. Does this mean that he is able to see beyond the uncertain structures of the local religion? Or is it because he has made distance between himself and religious practise because he cannot accept it? If he sees that something is wrong, then you might be able to turn him into your ally. If not, well… then you are probably faced with the choice of 1) opposing his decisions – or 2) accepting a compromise for the sake of peace and quiet.

This is the difficult part. What is reallly meant in the directions given in VML of everyone remaining with the church they belong to, until it is officially decided by the church itself that changes should be made? This was written when the hope still existed that the Danish bishops would decide to base the future on the message of VML.
Today, we are in the ‘interregnum’ described where eventually the people will demand changes to be made. Meanwhile, what do we do? We might begin to face the uncomfortable truth that we are the people…
Jim says something it is very important to keep in mind: No, we should not even try to engage religion in battle over ritualistic practices, by doing so we give these societal structures power . . . a power which would be better invested in our own direct spiritual connection to God's love.

We all make compromises, all the time, this is part of life. I remember when I went to the church to talk with the priest about the date for Simon’s christening. I was told to meet one of the “Figlie di Sant’Anna” – a group of nuns who have their convent and elementary school next to the major church here in Cercola (in this small place, there are three churches!). I thought I would need to explain to this woman how I would educate my child, or perhaps I would be faced with an attempt of a conversion – being a protestant as officially I am…
But no… I hardly got a chance to speak. The grey-clad elderly nun simply meant to give me a course in how to keep a family together: “Of course you know how we behave when our husband comes home in the evening, after a hard day’s work? We smile at him, we listen to his troubles, we prepare a nice meal for him, we see to it that the children are quiet and well-behaved so as not to disturb him, etc. [for your own imagination to understand what ‘etc.’ means!!! Hints were all but light in her brilliant eyes…] – in short, we try hard to oblige him in all ways. Of course we have our own problems, but they are secondary, for HE is the pillar of our home and family, and HE should be revered, blablablabla… “
When I was released on probation after half an hour of this hypnogogic conditioning, I could not help thinking if this is how she behaves herself, when Jesus comes home in the evening… More likely, this is how she would perhaps have liked to behave, had she not been just another member of Jesus’ vast harem. (Ouch, now I will be chastized by the Holy Trinity in all its might…)

In short, the catholic church strongly advises its members to always choose compromises. No matter what happens, the show must go on. Bravely, with a smile plastered on our faces (until we crumble from stress?) – but these are the expectations of God (or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, or whatever saint…) – so we had better fall into step. There is no mention of man and woman being equal, no talk of offering support to each other on equal terms rather than rever the man so that we can have a nice catholic way of life. And even today, year 2002, many Italian men wallow in this quagmire of misunderstanding, unknowing as they seemingly are about the scars on their own soul. For, as everyone knows, “the church is a matter for women and old people”. REAL MEN (ripple of muscles) simply do not concern themselves with religion – these vagueries are for those who need to cling to an unreal dream.

Death causes such fear in Italian men. The women cope much better with death here. Who knows why…

We cannot change the world from one day to the next. Peace is better than war, this is for sure. What it takes, is patience (what news!). Your son is still too young to understand why Jesus’ body should be contained in a small transparent wafer – and he will certainly not mistake the wine for Jesus’ blood. But you know the truth – and fortunately you are responsible for your children’s spiritual growth. As Jim says, The child can participate in (and learn to tolerate) any religious/cultural form and see it as "human" if they are convinced and confident they they know the way to God's house (love) if they need him.

In the church, when Simon’s was baptized, I did not go along with the Catholic prayers, of course. Partly because I do not know them well, partly because I do not agree with them. So it was a farce, but only partially so. I felt I was able to face the ceremony, because in my heart I spoke to God and prayed for those present, for the priest, for the entire catholic church – asking God to forgive those responsible for continuing the farce of empty prayers and ceremonies in spite of their hearts knowing better. I asked for the children present to be always able to contact their Conscience – and I asked for whatever strength I personally needed to alter – even if just slightly – the baroquely macabre “religious” atmosphere of catholicism. Just a little, even a drop in the ocean would make a difference, however slight.

You might do the same, Susi, or anything that you feel good about doing. Do what is best for the children and explain to them the matter from both your point of view and their father’s, in words they can understand. Face the whole show as if it was just another ‘end of term-show’. The children count, 2,000-year-old traditions don’t, when they are only distortions. Appropriately, we might say that “Rome wasn’t built in a day” – in your present situation, it would probably be a waste of time to go against the machinery of tradition: the opinion of one or two “straniere” does not mean anything here. Rather, our presence can perhaps be likened to the famous drop that hollows out the rock. Thus, it is the example that counts: the way WE respect the law and the rules (for example, the new local garbage disposal rules…). And remember, here the “rock” is only porous volcano-rock…

The problem may be tomorrow. When your son finds out that you really did not like him to participate in communion but allowed him to do so anyway – what then? Telling him the truth is the obvious thing to do – tell him that it was a local tradition difficult not to go along with, for what it was worth. Tell him that at the time you had to choose between a fight in the family, uncomprehending grandparents etc. – and another chance of learning, causing better future conditions to take shape in your mind, for his sake and for the sake of his sister and yourself. Tell him that it takes time to change the world – but that it can be done and that this is what you believe in.

Anyway, if your son does not want to participate in the Easter procession, you should certainly not make him. That would really be too much – you should not force him, if he dislikes the idea of it. Yes, the Catholic “Via Crucis” is an absurd and macabre rite, ‘celebrated’ in many ways, but the locals so love it. When it falls, it will be like taking away a toy from a child. Unless they grow up meanwhile, I fear they will suffer greatly when they lose it. One thing is for certain, they will not change it as long as the pope himself shuffles along the ‘stations’ of Jesus’ suffering.

Well, these were my ponderings on the subject, I hope they will be of some use to you.
Peace to you – and love above all, along with a nice helping of patience!
Ulla

1 ‘Idealism” of course means ‘the real thing’ – the path of truth. For thousands of years we have been told that idealism is concerned with the ‘unreal’, it is something for dreamers – in reality this is but another cover-up of the truth. For as everyone actually dreams, there really should be nothing to prevent humanity from realizing their dreams. Dreams like world peace, food for everyone, education for all, art accessible to all, etc.

By Susi on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:13 am:

Thank you very, very much for your opinions, Diamond Jim and Ulla, I appreciate a lot your answers. You gave me great comfort.

Speaking with someone who is able to understand and respect all your thoughts is one of the most beautiful things in the world. I’d like to take you all of this Discussion Board and establish a little town with houses built in wood, flowers in all colours and trees of every types anywhere, no cars, no pollution - and if you pass the 7 enormous trees seeming touching the orange – violet clouds in the sky of the evening you arrive at a rippling brook flowing in the big clear lake glittering in the sunset glow – fishes jumping in the water – two white swans bringing home their new, little, tired family after a long, long day of teachment in swimming and dipping......

I know, unfortunately this is not possible – we are still learning, too. And so we can’t separate ourselves from the other people. But I know, one day we all will be there together – everybody with the same knowledge - and then we can meet to discuss everything directly – finally with a cup of hot coffee in our lukewarm hands – poured out from the same coffee-machine! – I’ll bring a crispy, well-smelling “Apfelstrudel” just taken from the oven and then we - wrapped up in warm wool-covers - can finally watch the sunset serenely....

OH, I think this place already exists.

Wonderful! Se you there – sooner than I thought

With Love
Susi

By tstorey on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 05:22 am:

With wisdom, the experience of religion changes.

Yes, much of the dogma is built on a weak foundation. Truth is the only foundation that will last for eternity.

I see churches as important centers for community. Many gain strength from attending services and learn a form of meditation.

Ritual is a good thing and helps young folks to get a sense of belonging and participation in a thing they are only beginning to understand.

Any comfort is a step in the right direction.

TTL is not a polariser. the minute you are faced with "they don't accept TTL," you are falling into a trap. It means nothing. They don't need to accept it. God loves all of us TTL, or not.

The sooner we just accept all the oddities of this planet as they are, the more quickly will come the end of war.

Remember that a person's belief system is what they are built on. It may take lifetimes to change and will be defended with ferocity.

The greatest example is acceptance.


Take care.

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 02:48 pm:

TTL is not a polariser. the minute you are faced with "they don't accept TTL," you are falling into a trap. It means nothing. They don't need to accept it. God loves all of us TTL, or not.


Tom,
You nicely sum up what the rest of us have spent hours on meditating and elaborating!
I don't know why, but this reminds me of a scene of an "Indiana Jones" movie: the exotic, black-dressed villain with a turban and everything drops down in front of Indy and begins a spectacular exhibition of his dexterity in making his shiny, curved daggar swirl between his hands while shouting and snarling ferociously in front of the gaping crowd. Indy just stands there looking at him for a while, then - bored with the whole show - he simply pulls out his gun and fires...:-)(Please don't believe this is an acceptance of violence - these images just came to mind, as a humourous example from an adventure film!)

You have obtained much the same effect with your simple and serene words - yes, the greatest example is acceptance, certainly. And, I might add, tolerance. Still, neither of these positive sentiments should allow us to while our lives away passively. The example is what counts and this certainly means that we can work towards a new way of facing the obsolete rites of the past. We should help everyone overcome their fear of the unknown - their unjustified fear of God above all.

Love,
Ulla

By Jean Cavallaro on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 12:24 am:

Susi,
Parts of your experience are similar to mine. My husband also did not accept Toward the Light. (He had been "beaten" by the nuns in his early childhood and told that his jewish father had killed christ! Eesh what an experience he had! ) We never went to church services because he wouldn't.

I had a very religious protestant growing up. My parents were very engaged as "Christians". In church, I sang in the choir so I could be behind the minister and didn't have to look at him during the service. In fact, I had no idea what being a real christian meant until I read TTL. Every year at Easter my mother would explain again what made easter so special. I just couldn't keep such a loathsome story in my head.

I read Toward the Light in 1980 just after it was translated into English. (The way the book got into my hands is an interesting story too but not for now.)

My father died when my son was 8 years old. He naturally asked many questions about after life and things that he knew I seemed to understand. I couldn't answer his questions and I decided to read Ardor's account to him as bedtime reading. He loved listening to it and seemed to have a very easy time grasping it. He heard the truth before he heard the lies (except for some that both sets of grandparents offered him). He is now about to celebrate his 24 th birthday.

Knowing the truth from Ardor has not stopped the bullies from beating him up, has not made him do well in school etc. It does not show itself overtly at all. However, if I ever mention the name Ardor, he knows exactly who I am talking about. He is not at all confused about love and reincarnation and living on after death. His father and none of his grandparents know what he knows about God and forgiveness. One day, when he was 21, he decided to wear one of those pendants with St Francis on it. He showed it to me and said he wears it because he likes what Francis said. No big deal.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that it will be all right. When your son learns Ardor's story he will recognise it as the truth. Because he is young, he will not fight the truth the way older people do. GO AHEAD, READ IT TO HIM. Answer his questions in the best way you can. (Don't paraphrase the story. Let Ardor speak for himself.) Then, when he is asked to take part in these frightening and gruesome easter pagents, he will know he is doing it as an actor in a play but he will not be confused in himself. Like the rest of us, he will need to realise that not everyone is able to understand the truth.

With compassion,
Jean

By Colin M. on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 05:55 pm:

Hello Jean,

You bring up a point that I have wanted to say in this thread but I have had to sort of bite my lip a little and hesitated to add to the thread.

Ulla and some others know I am a "little??" aggressive in my feelings toward religion and have a feeling that it is impossible to be a 'little pregnant' if you will, so I did not want to make any negative comments.

But your mention of reading Ardor's Account to your son and his easy acceptance causes my reply.

Children are so close to our real homes and I am certain that their memory of where they just were is so strong when they are young that I believe that is the best time to introduce them to TTL - before they have been twisted by the darkness surrounding them. I feel that using TTL, and all of the Truths as 'bedtime' stories far exceeds in value the fanciful tales of witches and goblins and magic and fairies that some parents regale their children with - just before they dream.

There is what I find to be an interesting anthropology discovery that occurred many years ago (unfortunately I can't find the book I read this in) and concerns a newly 'discovered' tribe on one of the islands around Indonesia/New Guinea.

In this tribe, every morning, the parents - usually the father but that was cultural - talked with their children about the dreams they had the night before. This was described as not being in a condescending manner but dealt with seriously - apparently so that the time length of the child's memory of their dreams would be strengthened and last longer throughout the day as time went on. the focus was on bringing into play an easier remembering of the dreams and an easier access to those dreams throughout life as well as an easier time getting to sleep at night.

In this tribe there was also apparently no words for mental illness and the concept seemed to be completely unknown to them - as were the concepts of murder, violence and thievery.

I'm sure most of us have had that 'annoying' situation where a wonderful dream and feeling 'disappeared' moments after we shook the sleep from our eyes. I only have one dream that I can honestly say I have carried with me since I was a child - and it is only a fragment at that - and only a couple from other times in my life - also fragments.

These fragments are so enjoyable - one where I am flying which is so incredibly real that I can feel the wind and the sensation of swooping and soaring - that I wish I could access the memory of the entire dream.

Perhaps your giving the gift of knowledge of the Truth to your son at such an early age is a model that all could follow to the improvement of the life of their children.

I do empathize with the struggle that parents go through - especially in a situation where one parent understands and yet is (as often happens) chided for their beliefs by their partner and/or castigated by their extended family or society at large - but as I mentioned in another thread, I firmly believe that the reason a child chooses to be born into a family where one or both parents have knowledge of the Truth is so they CAN be taught at the earliest possible opportunity of the Truth and be protected by the parent(s) from the loathing, fear and confusion fostered by organized religions.

Love,
Colin

By Colin M. on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 04:46 am:

After re-reading I can see I wasn't as clear as I intended.

If a child is averse to participating in the rituals of organized religion - or if even the thought of participation fills a child with fear and loathing, I feel the parents should pay attention to those feelings simply because the child is still so close in mind to his real home.

The child just finished 'school' and the lessons the child has just learned are still fresh and strong. Surely this is the exact time when one should NOT be forced to participate in rituals that perpetuate such harmful lies as those from organized religions.

I feel it can be likened to the 'studies' done where groups of children from disparate 'races' (I really don't like that word as it is such a 'separator') - and both sexes, are placed together to play. If the child is young enough - say before 5 years old - there is no racial tension or cultural hatred or religious fanaticism or sexism displayed - although oddly enough it has been shown that even children of only 2 have already been indoctrinated into societal expectations of 'little boys and little girls' and will gravitate toward the toys and clothing 'expected' of them depending on their sex.

But as has been said, "Children do not naturally hate - it has to be taught to them."

I believe Jean that your experience with your son shows that children are naturally drawn to the Truth because they have just been living the Truth - as mentioned in TTL - for as long as from 5 to 30 years.

I also feel that children are naturally fearful of organized religion because of the same situation and should not be forced to participate in such horrific rituals - no matter how 'dressed up' those rituals may be.

This is not fighting against organized religion as I agree with Jim that this only gives those institutions greater power - it is ignoring them altogether. Not ignoring our brothers and sisters trapped in those black situations but ignoring completely the corrupt leviathan altogether.

Giving any obeisance to anyone at the manager level and above within the multi-level marketing schemes that are organized religion or taking part in the anti-Light and anti-Love pomp and pageantry, lends an undeserved credibility to them/those and allows them/those to justify their harmful existence by pontificating that they exist because so many believe and so it must be right and "from God" so give me your money and brainwash your child into 'belonging' or you and they will be considered a pariah.

To me it is not fighting against - it is self-defense and protecting our loved ones, to keep them as far away from organized religion as is possible.

By Susi on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 06:56 pm:

Thanks a lot, Tom, for your very wise intervention! In the past days, I thought and thought – do I accept the way of thinking of those who don’t know TTL?

Well, I think I’m trying to. Maybe the mentioned phrase “he doesn’t accept TTL” once, was an expression of delusion or resignation. But I don’t condemn nobody for his way of living and so I expect others to do the same toward my person.
In any case, I will try to keep your golden advice in mind every minute for not making some kind of condemnation toward others – TOLERANCE is the right word, Ulla! Tolerance will be the key for wisdom – peace.

Also, I want to follow the kind advice of Jean and Collin, I’ll read TTL to my children as soon as possible in spite of telling parts of the book.

Then I want to express my gratitude to everybody for your participation! Every word of you is precious giving me new force and hopeness in weak moments!

A tight embrace to everybody

Susi

By Mara Vazquez on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 05:53 am:

Hello there,
I must admit I have not read all of it yet, but because of little time (it has been so long since I could stop by...) i wanted to make you aware of a nice little book called "The Wise Child" by Sonia Choquette, which has a lot of great advice how to help children be close to their divine selves and guidance, and to honor their intuitive feelings. As Colin rightly says, they are still so close to home. I see it in my 8 month old son how sensitive he is to different types of energies. It is amazing to watch him watching me when I pray, he smiles and knows exactly what is going on, if anything has been troubling him (like the chickenpox, frustrated with crawling or whatever) prayer always works to make him feel good. Also if there is tension, or fear or any 'dark' feelings he senses them also. Then, coming back to the divine self, to center yourself and others, always works. So Susi, I would respect if your son does not want to take part. I can see that Italy might be tougher than other contries since the catholics have such a stronghold, but to do what feels right in your heart will always be the 'right'thing to do, so I would follow the childs lead, and yes, I plan to introduce him to TTL as early as possible. Even know I sometimes sing him a song starting with 'Our Father has build unto you a house...' (by Roger Davidson) taken from the words of christ in TTL at bedtime, and other times.
I will be dealing with similar problems soon, as I will be staying with my catholic parents for some time soon - but I hope that if they see that I pray with my son, and just how happy he is, that I must be doing something right, even if I did the 'increadibly horrible dead' of stepping out of the church and not chistening my son.
I would love to go on, but I have to go, lots of light and love to you all,
Mara

By Mara on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

Hello again,
could someone point me to the place in TTL where it says that we should stay in our respective religions? I have read it so many times, but somehow that must have eluded me, now I wonder should I have stayed catholic? If I believed that there was any way that I could make changes from the inside out I might have stayed, but what do women have to say - and also, I believe my purpose is elsewhere in this life, so it did feel right to do it, also towards my son. I can explain to him that I believe we are all brothers and sisters and all have the same God.
I do feel sad though since my father now sees it totally pointless to talk about anything religious if I have stept out of the church. He also does not believe anyone is really qualified unless you have studied the bible etc. in great detail (he has about 10 huge books that just interpret the bible in detail).
I do wonder, should I have stayed, just not to hurt him or my family? He does feel like I personally hurt him so deaply that he will never recover, and he said he will wait until the day he dies that I will return to the church. Now talk about a guilt trip. There is so much guilt in my family, it is hard to take.
I am sorry, I am so tired I can hardly think, so please excuse my jumbled thoughts, but I have pondered this greatly (to stay or not to stay)...

Love,
Mara

By Ulla S. Qvistgaard on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 04:16 pm:

Dear Mara,

You have followed your heart and your conscience, and you have chosen to step out of the Catholic church.
This is your choice. If someone feels hurt by a decision which was only yours to take - then it is probably this "someone" who has problems.

Sometimes I discuss religious matters with a woman who teaches catechism in a small local church here in Cercola. She does not judge me, nor do I judge her - we have different thoughts about religion as such, but as we still share belief in some fundamental facts, such as e.g. the existence of God - we are able to meet on this common ground and simply marvel together at this fact. Sometimes our talks are very interesting; it is useful to see things also from other points of view. At other times our disagreements make us change the subject...

Of course I always end up feeling relieved that I found VML so early in my life (at 17): this has spared me much trouble. Such as having to face a whole religious "career" undertaken in the firm belief that the publicly accepted Danish religion was the only true religion - or experiences to this effect. (Not that I was ever likely to become a Danish Church fundamentalist, hehe... Official religion is simply too weak - no substantial arguments to be found anywhere, so most people are unable to muster strong, loving feelings of attachment about the religion they were born into.)

I understand why you feel frustrated and muddled up, just now. It is exhausting to try to stand up for your beliefs when you are (seemingly) all alone with them. I am certain, however, that with your pure mind you will be able to "see through" the fear and complexes that still tie your father so strongly to the only faith he can fathom as being true. Human beings are still so small and scared when faced with the immensity of God: what if it were true, that we are all going to burn in hell, if we do not follow the rules of the church? - etc. Better make certain we will never be faced with this possibility...as a sort of investment for an uncertain future.

Mara, you possess the ability to find your own "calm centre" through prayer - this will enable you to quickly return to peace and clarity. For it is but the noise of the madding world that beats you down, temporarily. This "noise" is very real - it is present on the astral level, a remnant of all those strange and morbid ideas that the Elder once upon a time decided to enter into the Earth's astral layer... But, as the Eldest no longer exist on the Earth plane unless incarnated by God and thus brought under the Laws of the Light - it is now far more easy to combat the noise and see through the deceptions of earthly darkness.

So don't worry - you followed your conscience? In that case you have done nothing wrong. Remember: just because a great number of people share an idea, this does not necessarily turn this idea into truth... Truth is what we feel inside.

I hope you will soon return to your usual self!

Love,
Ulla

PS. It is not said in TTL itself that we should remain in our respective churches. On the contrary, at the beginning of the Conclusive Summary (page 258, last par. in the current English edition), it is mentioned that "human beings can shorten this time [until TTL has been widely accepted] by not striving against their inner convictions, by not assuming a posture of indifference and hostility to this message..."

In Q&A I, question no. 13, it is however mentioned that those members of the Danish church who gather around the message of VML should remain in their church, as it is not the intention to found a new religion or sectarian institution. The Danish church will, in fact, slowly disintegrate as VML is gradually accepted by the Danish population.
Useless to say that this is a quote often waved about frustratedly by Danish theologians and others who think they see an invitation to demolish the church in this brief paragraph. However, this is not what the paragraph says. It simply states that as the Danish church is based on false beliefs, its destiny is that of disintegration - unless it should accept the message of VML, which was entrusted in the hands of the Danish people.
But the moment that would have established Denmark as the leading nation in religious and ethical matters has long since passed and the occasion will not return.
In fact, sooner than any other church, the Danish church is indeed disintegrating, crumbling away - a slow, painful process. But this is what they chose, themselves. And where the Youngest failed, it is not to be expected that human spirits will succeed.

By gt on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 07:19 pm:

i don't know if this is the right category but i found this other site that seems to be getting the same thing across. could someone check this out and let me know if is as pure as the light?
http://www.greenessene.com/earthspell.htm?hop=lordswill

i'm officially "trippin out" that i "found" the light site and the green essene site within the same month after a lifetime of religion and these last three years of pilgimage. 8 O !
thanks